# Vaccine refuser data thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** factual, covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [January 2, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542 "2021-01-02T21:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/181 "2021-03-18T16:01:11Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > This isn’t exactly vaccine refusal as I had envisaged it, but here’s a whole country in top-down rejection: > > [Coronavirus in Tanzania: The country that's rejecting the vaccine - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55900680) > > > Since June last year, when President John Magufuli declared the country “Covid-19 free”, he, along with other top government officials, have mocked the efficacy of masks, doubted if testing works, and teased neighbouring countries which have imposed health measures to curb the virus. > > > > Mr Magufuli has also warned - without providing any evidence - that Covid-19 vaccines could be harmful and has instead been urging Tanzanians to use steam inhalation and herbal medicines, neither of which have been approved by the World Health Organization (WHO) as treatments… > > > > …“If the white man was able to come up with vaccinations, he should have found a vaccination for Aids, cancer and TB by now,” said Mr Magufuli, who has often cast himself as standing up to Western imperialism. > > That’s only a taster of the madness. **This isn’t going to end well.** My Bold. It didn’t: > **[John Magufuli: Tanzania's president dies aged 61 after Covid rumours](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-56437852)** > > Covid-sceptic John Magufuli had not been seen in public for more than two weeks. > **Tanzania’s President John Magufuli has died aged 61, the country’s vice-president has announced.** > > …Mr Magufuli had not been seen in public for more than two weeks, and rumours had been circulating about his health. > > Opposition politicians said last week that he had contracted Covid-19, but this has not been confirmed. I don’t know what to add to that, really. Except to hope that maybe now Tanzania’s public health policies will focus a little less on steam inhalation and herbal medicines, and a little more on vaccines, COVAX permitting. j ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/182 "2021-03-18T16:45:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Trump Supporters Turn On Him Over COVID-19 Vaccine In Uncomfortable CNN Segment (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/oklahoma-diner-coronavirus-shot-090301890.html) > > > “Trump is a liberal New Yorker,” one Trump voter declared. “Why would we listen to him either?” This one is making my head explode. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/183 "2021-03-19T21:08:07Z")
Said another way … > Trump is not Trumply enough for us Trumpers! We need a new Trump!! That line “We need a new Trump” makes me think of Weird All Yankovich’s [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3KvgQIBcdRk/maxresdefault.jpg "YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KvgQIBcdRk) I’m sure we can come up with some great lyrics if we try. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/184 "2021-03-20T15:10:08Z")
That comment is proof that Trump didn’t really cause ‘Trumpism’, as it already existed as an unnamed phenomenon. Trump was just the first one to identify that ‘market’ and capitalize on it for political purposes. Now that Trump is no longer a viable vehicle to use for hauling their grievances around, more and more are probably done with him. On to the next authoritarian demagogue. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/185 "2021-04-02T11:25:59Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > In regard to COVID-19, we also do not yet know whether we are going to see babies born to mothers who had asymptomatic infections while pregnant being diagnosed with things like autism, dyspraxia, or hearing and vision problems that might not be apparent at birth. Does this mean there’s evidence that asymptomatic COVID-19 in expectant mothers could lead to autism in their children? Maybe I’m reading your post wrong? Otherwise, that is really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/186 "2021-04-05T18:22:51Z")
No, what she was saying was that there are a lot of things that are not apparent immediately after birth that can be defects caused by COVID-19. Furthermore, we may never know because there were a lot of asymptomatic COVID-19 cases. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/187 "2021-04-05T19:25:33Z")
I’d rephrase that even more for greater clarity and fewer unwanted implications. 1. As a general matter there are a lot of developmental defects that can occur in fetuses for whatever random reason. Many of these defects are hidden in infants and only manifest months or years later as the child grows. Autism is an obvious example, but so is poor vision, dyslexia, some hearing problems, or Huntington’s disease. 2. We have no reason think COVID specifically causes any such defects, much less any particular type of defect. 3. But we also don’t (yet) have enough statistics on COVID babies growing up to rule out the possibility. 4. In 2020 & 2021 a lot of people had symptomatic COVID without being tested, and an even greater number had asymptomatic COVID without being tested. Only a very small fraction of all COVID cases ever got tested and therefore definitively identified as COVID vs flu vs common cold vs nothing at all. Women (and men) of childbearing years are particularly likely to have mild to asymptomatic COVID cases and are therefore less likely than the average person to have gotten a COVID test for their infection. 5. That means that _if_ we later observe an actual bump in some kind(s) of defects it will be very difficult to prove or disprove any connection with COVID because so few of the parents with defective kids will have been tested for COVID at the time. We will be left with only a correlation, not a proof of causation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/188 "2021-04-10T15:21:03Z")
> **[Nearly 40% of Marines have declined Covid-19 vaccine | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/politics/marines-coronavirus-vaccines/index.html)** > > Nearly 40% of US Marines are declining Covid-19 vaccinations, according to data provided to CNN on Friday by the service, the first branch to disclose service-wide numbers on acceptance and declination. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/189 "2021-04-12T09:28:06Z")
I remember a WWII poster for army camps (not for civilian consumption) which showed a child addressing a soldier: “I bet you’re not afraid of anything.” And the message at the bottom was LIVE UP TO IT SOLDIER. Maybe it’s time to revisit that message. By the way: The poster’s intent was to encourage soldiers to take VD prophylaxis. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/190 "2021-04-12T17:15:21Z")
> **[r/PropagandaPosters - Live up to it soldier -- "'I bet you're stronger 'n'...](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/7oxtli/live_up_to_it_soldier_i_bet_youre_stronger_n/)** > > 62 votes and 5 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/191 "2021-04-12T21:25:19Z")
So for statistics - Minnesota is done-ish vaccinating th 65+ crowd (as in, we’ve been open to other people for a number of weeks - when I work the clinic, I still see a few Seniors just getting around to getting their shots. 84.1% of that population has had at least one shot. So max - 16% are refusers. In the general population, we are over 40% at least one dose in, and we seem to be having some issues in communities of color - although whether that is vaccine refusal or distribution issues (it can be hard to find a vaccine without access to a car), I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/192 "2021-04-13T10:24:00Z")
Johnny\_LA : Thank you. That’s the one! ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/193 "2021-04-13T15:12:01Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > No, what she was saying was that there are a lot of things that are not apparent immediately after birth that can be defects caused by COVID-19. Furthermore, we may never know because there were a lot of asymptomatic COVID-19 cases. Yes… > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’d rephrase that even more for greater clarity and fewer unwanted implications. and yes. I got exhausted trying to explain it. I’d like to further emphasize something I tried to say in my original post, but it got lost, is this: We do know FOR A FACT that a number of viruses, _which are asymptomatic in the mother, cause birth defects in the fetus._ Zika and rubella are two examples, but there are others, and a few suspect, but nothing proved. It does not seem a far-reach, therefore, to speculate that asymptomatic COVID in a mother could cause something in a child that will not be obvious at birth. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/194 "2021-04-13T15:45:46Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > We do know FOR A FACT that a number of viruses, _which are asymptomatic in the mother, cause birth defects in the fetus._ Zika and rubella are two examples, but there are others, and a few suspect, but nothing proved. > > It does not seem a far-reach, therefore, to speculate that asymptomatic COVID in a mother could cause something in a child that will not be obvious at birth. And, unfortunately, we will not know what the possible effects are for a long time. SO WILL ALL YOU MASKHOLES GET THE #$&^ING VACCINE, _PLEASE_? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/195 "2021-04-13T16:23:56Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > I remember a WWII poster for army camps (not for civilian consumption) which showed a child addressing a soldier: “I bet you’re not afraid of anything.” And the message at the bottom was LIVE UP TO IT SOLDIER. Maybe it’s time to revisit that message. How’s this? I just made it. [![](https://i.imgur.com/X1ZQVPN.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/X1ZQVPN.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/196 "2021-04-13T17:05:13Z")
Wow, better and better! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/197 "2021-04-13T17:12:40Z")
If anyone could tell me the names of the fonts in the original poster (or the modern equivalents in MS-Word), I’ll see about modifying the one I made. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/198 "2021-04-13T17:44:12Z")
[Identifont](http://www.identifont.com/identify?42+.+3ZAV+4O+NEY+3JHP+DH+772+KBY+4I6D+4WTU+1L0+9A+7UX+57D+J4S+Z+4C+8E+5BU+PLM+8B+1JY+75+8RT+J+4PW+1KS+2U+6XA+5Q+26RB+2M+4Y+6X6+53K+1U6+1KI+79+1LA+1QY+7G+9Z) came up with some close matches, but I’m not sure how many of them are packaged with Word now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/199 "2021-04-13T17:58:23Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > I’m not sure how many of them are packaged with Word now. I tried… > If you continue, “Alternate Gothic” will be saved as the current font. This font isn’t available on the device you are currently using, so another font may be used for display, for print, or for both. Do you want to continue? I used Franklin Gothic Medium (except for the COVID-19 part, which I forgot to change), which is close. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542/200 "2021-04-14T13:16:33Z")
It’s a good match…for the COVID-19 part, have you tried condensing the spacing slightly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaccine-refuser-data-thread/929542.md?page=11)