# Vagina Dialogues - canceled, too offensive **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119 "2015-07-24T23:56:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/21 "2015-07-25T04:04:58Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > This is six month old news, just so everyone’s aware. [Eve Ensler was puzzled by it](http://time.com/3672912/eve-ensler-vagina-monologues-mount-holyoke-college/), as am I. There’s a transgender monologue \*in \*it (the “Vagina Monologues” are more numerous than any one showing actually has. Certain ones are given rights on V-Day for free use in V-Day events. The transgender piece, “[They Beat the Girl Out of My Boy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW4ncpOn37M),” is one of them.) If they were so concerned, why not do that one as part of the piece? Inclusion isn’t enough. Even suggesting that “people with vaginas” and “women” are groups that have _any_ correlation makes you literally Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/22 "2015-07-25T05:50:59Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Nope, it’s **not** the porn or censorship angle: it’s the juggling and cancelling out of conflicting victimhoods that demonstrates American virtue. American idiocy is more like it. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/23 "2015-07-25T07:12:40Z")
This whole thing is odd to me. I’ve seen a performace of _The Vagina Monologues_ once. It was in a very small theatre (basically an office) performed by a mix of crossdressers/drag queen/female impressionists/and transgendered people. It was riveting. A guy I had a crush on who (was an FTM transgendered person) stole it. And I only mention that he’s a guy, b/c listening to a guy talk about his vagina is odd and wonderful. My mother went to version (she swears it was Eve Ensler doing it, but I think she’s wrong b/c of timing) and after, she (my mom, not Eve) couldn’t stop saying the word ‘cunt’. My Mom: “Cuuuuuuuunt! Say it with me ! It’s empowering!” Me: “Mom, please god, stop. Please? Mom, we’re at Kroger’s. Please stop.” She was in her mid-fifties at the time. “Mom, please stop saying ‘cunt’. Seriously please. Mom, stop.” ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/24 "2015-07-25T10:43:40Z")
It was only 15 years ago that criticizing _The Vagina Monologues_ was itself cause for a visit from the left-wing thought police: [Georgetown Exorcised - WSJ](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB955063703269974075) (Not mentioned in the article was that the focus of the critique was the play’s unashamed celebration of the “good rape” of a 13-year-old by a 24-year-old). And now, _supporting_ it is verboten. It’s funny how once you start down the path of some ideas, words, or art being inherently evil, it inevitably gets out of your control… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/25 "2015-07-25T14:31:23Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It was only 15 years ago that criticizing _The Vagina Monologues_ was itself cause for a visit from the left-wing thought police: [http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB955063703269974075](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB955063703269974075) (Not mentioned in the article was that the focus of the critique was the play’s unashamed celebration of the “good rape” of a 13-year-old by a 24-year-old). And now, _supporting_ it is verboten. It’s funny how once you start down the path of some ideas, words, or art being inherently evil, it inevitably gets out of your control… A lesson the right haven’t learned, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/26 "2015-07-26T01:11:45Z")
Cock tales are next! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/27 "2015-07-26T01:24:18Z")
But we’re still allows to put on [Talkin’ 'Bout 'Ginas](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/00/00lginas.phtml), right? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/28 "2015-07-26T01:25:34Z")
That would be _Puppetry of the Penis_, which is less controversial though only slightly more silly. Could it be possible that Mount Holyoke simply, understandably found doing VM year after year tedious, but feared being tarred for dropping it, so manufactured an excuse that strengthened their diversity cried instead of compromised it? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/29 "2015-07-26T01:28:10Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > (Not mentioned in the article was that the focus of the critique was the play’s unashamed celebration of the “good rape” of a 13-year-old by a 24-year-old)… Yeah, THAT was a big WTF? back then. PS. My ex did not find the word cunt particularly liberating. Then again she wasn’t the one saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/30 "2015-07-26T01:35:52Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > American idiocy is more like it. Keep licking those donuts, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/31 "2015-07-26T03:04:13Z")
Why don’t they just take the performance off-campus? Anecdote: Some years ago (circa 1995 or so?), at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo: The Art Department had an on-going display of students’ art in a corridor at the cafeteria. One painting was a very abstract drawing that, the artist insisted, was a half of an avocado. (Once you were told that, if you stared long enough, you could maybe see an avocado there.) A female cafeteria student worker filed a complaint that it was offensive, because she saw female genitalia there. The Thought Police ordered the painting removed. Community-wide outrage ensued. Epilogue: It so happened that the local community college had an elderly female librarian who was very avant-garde. Separately from her library work, she also ran a bistro downtown, of the old-style “artsy” sort where poets could come and read their work, that sort of thing. She put the painting on display there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/32 "2015-07-26T04:24:14Z")
I saw this in a headline, but didn’t realize it was the same old story. I guess you have to rummage through old news to push the story that Political Correctness is ruining the country. Anyways, if it has a “good rape” in it, THAT’S the reason it should be banned. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/33 "2015-07-26T05:18:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I saw this in a headline, but didn’t realize it was the same old story. I guess you have to rummage through old news to push the story that Political Correctness is ruining the country. > > Anyways, if it has a “good rape” in it, THAT’S the reason it should be banned. The “good rape” in question is a reminiscence of a woman’s first sexual encounter, when she was (iirc) 14, with an adult woman. It’s not a work of fiction - it’s a true story told to Ensler by the victim, who was by then an adult, and who viewed the experience as a positive event in her life. It’s definitely one of the more troublesome pieces in the show, and Ensler’s been often attacked for ever including it in the show. On the other hand, it’s an authentic experience that a real woman had, and the point of _The Vagina Monologues_ was to capture a wide range of experiences from women at different times and backgrounds. It’s also representative of the experiences of a lot of queer people. Should those experiences be erased because they conflict with our current sexual morality? I’m not sure i know the best answer to that. I do know that ignoring those stories because we don’t like what they represent would be the very definition of political correctness. Which is something that the people who complain the loudest about Ensler generally hate. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/34 "2015-07-26T06:54:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The “good rape” in question is a reminiscence of a woman’s first sexual encounter, when she was (iirc) 14, with an adult woman. It’s not a work of fiction - it’s a true story told to Ensler by the victim, who was by then an adult, and who viewed the experience as a positive event in her life. > > It’s definitely one of the more troublesome pieces in the show, and Ensler’s been often attacked for ever including it in the show. On the other hand, it’s an authentic experience that a real woman had, and the point of _The Vagina Monologues_ was to capture a wide range of experiences from women at different times and backgrounds. It’s also representative of the experiences of a lot of queer people. Should those experiences be erased because they conflict with our current sexual morality? I’m not sure i know the best answer to that. I do know that ignoring those stories because we don’t like what they represent would be the very definition of political correctness. Which is something that the people who complain the loudest about Ensler generally hate. Yes, yes. When it’s a 24-year old man having sex with a sober 13-year girl it’s “sick” and “paedophilia” and “grounds for castration”, but when the participants are the same sex and the younger one is drunk it’s “empowering” and “discovering my true self”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/35 "2015-07-26T08:21:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s also representative of the experiences of a lot of queer people. Should those experiences be erased because they conflict with our current sexual morality? I’m not sure i know the best answer to that. I do know that ignoring those stories because we don’t like what they represent would be the very definition of political correctness. Which is something that the people who complain the loudest about Ensler generally hate. In case you haven’t been keeping up, the people complaining about Ensler now are the never-able-to-be-satisfied trans activists. As a queer person, I’d like to go on record as saying that having a sexual encounter with a 13-year-old as an adult has never been and will never be “representative of my experience” and anyone apologizing for this “good rape” by complaining about such repressive moral standards as “don’t have sex with children” is being disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Natch\_Jackson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@Natch\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natch_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/36 "2015-07-26T10:14:07Z")
The Vagina Dialogues is a ventriloquist act I would definitely go see. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/37 "2015-07-26T10:29:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Why don’t they just take the performance off-campus? > > Anecdote: Some years ago (circa 1995 or so?), at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo: The Art Department had an on-going display of students’ art in a corridor at the cafeteria. One painting was a very abstract drawing that, the artist insisted, was a half of an avocado. (Once you were told that, if you stared long enough, you could maybe see an avocado there.) A female cafeteria student worker filed a complaint that it was offensive, because she saw female genitalia there. The Thought Police ordered the painting removed. Community-wide outrage ensued. > > Epilogue: It so happened that the local community college had an elderly female librarian who was very avant-garde. Separately from her library work, she also ran a bistro downtown, of the old-style “artsy” sort where poets could come and read their work, that sort of thing. She put the painting on display there. And today the artist of that abstract drawing is known as Georgia O’Keeffe. And now you know the rest of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/38 "2015-07-26T13:20:01Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Yes, yes. When it’s a 24-year old man having sex with a sober 13-year girl it’s “sick” and “paedophilia” and “grounds for castration”, but when the participants are the same sex and the younger one is drunk it’s “empowering” and “discovering my true self”. :rolleyes: You can, I hope, show where I have ever described sex between an adult and a minor as “empowering” or “discovering your true self.” If you cannot, I expect you to retract this slander. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/39 "2015-07-26T14:39:22Z")
> [@Natch\_Jackson](#): > > The Vagina Dialogues is a ventriloquist act I would definitely go see. Right up there with the woman who could \*sing \*from her _diaphragm_! ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119/40 "2015-07-26T14:42:15Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Yes, yes. When it’s a 24-year old man having sex with a sober 13-year girl it’s “sick” and “paedophilia” and “grounds for castration”, but when the participants are the same sex and the younger one is drunk it’s “empowering” and “discovering my true self”. :rolleyes: > [@Haberdash](#): > > In case you haven’t been keeping up, the people complaining about Ensler now are the never-able-to-be-satisfied trans activists. > > As a queer person, I’d like to go on record as saying that having a sexual encounter with a 13-year-old as an adult has never been and will never be “representative of my experience” and anyone apologizing for this “good rape” by complaining about such repressive moral standards as “don’t have sex with children” is being disgusting. Wow. That’s the largest misrepresentation of posts I’ve seen this morning. Hell, **Miller** even added a crap ton of disclaimers about his ambivalent feelings on the subject, yet people read their own agenda into what he said. What grade exactly do they normally teach reading comprehension in and where in the world were all these folks that missed it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vagina-dialogues-canceled-too-offensive/726119.md?page=3)