# Valerie Plame testifies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255 "2007-03-16T20:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/21 "2007-03-25T02:03:26Z")
You know, once upon a time the Republican Party stood for a strong defense against enemies foreign and domestic, small government, freedom for American citizens, remaining within the bounds of the Constitution, other laudable ideals. My parents and I were proud to be members of the G.O.P. Today it stands for the antithesis of all the above, as is evidenced by everything that has come out in this and all the related investigations – it’s all about using any means, no matter how despicable, to hang onto the reins of power. And I hope it is thoroughly destroyed as a result of all this – and the few good Republicans who remain help to form a new party devoted to some of what Republicanism was good for, back when it was a decent organization. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/22 "2007-03-25T02:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] You know, once upon a time the Republican Party stood for a strong defense against enemies foreign and domestic, small government, freedom for American citizens, remaining within the bounds of the Constitution, other laudable ideals. [/QUOTE] Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/23 "2007-03-25T02:18:48Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad. [/QUOTE] What a sad reply. The Republicans are making the Republicans look bad. Wouldn’t matter what the Democrats did. Outing your own country’s covert agents, and hurting your own country’s national security, for a political advantage makes you look bad. You really don’t need a political opponent to point it out. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/24 "2007-03-25T02:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad. [/QUOTE] You gotta admit that the Repubs are doing an awfully good job of making themselves look bad without any help from “the left”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/25 "2007-03-25T02:25:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad. [/QUOTE] When they had the power, they did not bother to investigate what was going on, far from it; according to the last Republican congress, only Baseball Players did need to be be put under oath. 🙂 Republicans are looking bad because of what they did and what they did not do. And it is not true to say that the left does not stand for something. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/26 "2007-03-25T02:38:18Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Yeah. There’s no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin. [/QUOTE] Which part? [Plame hearing transcript](http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Plame_hearing_transcript_0316.html) [Plame hearing transcript #2](http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Plame_hearing_transcript_2_0316.html) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/27 "2007-03-25T05:16:32Z")
If hotness was a disqualifier for covert work, we wouldn’t have a (two click rule) [Hedy Lamarr](http://www.douglass.co.uk/webpromote/celebs/oops_h.htm) or, even, a cute, but mostly just slutty, [Mata Hari.](http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/MT19_SS/MT19.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/28 "2007-03-25T10:46:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Yeah. There’s no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin. [/QUOTE] Well, _duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh_. At the time of her outing, she’s outed and by definition no longer covert. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/29 "2007-03-25T12:06:00Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad. [/QUOTE] What was it, and when? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/30 "2007-03-25T12:18:50Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Yeah. There’s no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin. [/QUOTE] [Where the holy fuck do you get \*that \* from?](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/plame/plame_transcript_031607.html) Same place as Sam? The CIA Director \*himself \* says otherwise: > [@](#): > > (WAXMAN) This hearing is being conducted in open session. This is appropriate, but it is also challenging. \*\*Ms. Wilson was a covert employee of the CIA. We cannot discuss all of the details of her CIA employment in open session. > > I have met, personally, with General Hayden, the head of the CIA, to discuss what I can and cannot say about Ms. Wilson’s service.\*\* > > And I want to thank him for his cooperation and help in guiding us along these lines. > > My staff has also worked with the agency to ensure these remarks do not contain classified information. > > \*\*I have been advised by the CIA and that even now, after all that has happened, I cannot disclose the full nature, scope and character of Ms. Wilson’s service to our nation without causing serious damage to our national security interests. \*\* > > But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today’s hearing. > > \*\*During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. > > At the time of the publication of Robert Novak’s column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information. \*\* May we expect you not to repeat that long-cherished lie? May we expect you to be more critical in the future of the sources who’ve spread that lie? But wait, there’s more: > [@](#): > > Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14, Step 6, under the federal pay scale. > > Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA. > > Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA. > > \*\*Without discussing the specifics of Ms. Wilson’s classified work, it is accurate to say that she worked on the prevention of the development and use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States. \*\* > > This disclosure of Ms. Wilson’s classified employment status with the CIA was so detrimental that the CIA filed a crimes report with the Department of Justice. > > As I mentioned, Ms. Wilson’s work was so sensitive that even now she is still prohibited from discussing many details of her work in public because of the continuing risks to CIA officials and assets in the field and to the CIA’s ongoing work. Rove, Cheney, and Libby made us less safe simply as an act of _personal spite_. How else can you read that? Is there any way to excuse it even in part? > [@](#): > > Some have suggested that Ms. Wilson did not have a sensitive position with the CIA or a position of unusual risk. As a CIA employee, Ms. Wilson has taken a lifelong oath to protect classified information, even after her CIA employment has ended. As a result, she cannot respond to most of the statements made about her. > > I want to make clear, however, that any characterization that minimizes the personal risk of Ms. Wilson that she accepted in her assignments is flatly wrong. There should be no confusion on this point. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/31 "2007-03-25T12:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. [/QUOTE] What the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. It’s time to shit or get off the pot when it comes to dealing with Bush – impeach him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/32 "2007-03-25T15:29:48Z")
I have maintained all along that whatever the legal niceties of the Valerie Plame outing, it was in plain simple fact an act of treason against the United States. I feel very vindicated. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/33 "2007-03-26T11:43:32Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] If hotness was a disqualifier for covert work, we wouldn’t have a (two click rule) [Hedy Lamarr](http://www.douglass.co.uk/webpromote/celebs/oops_h.htm) or, even, a cute, but mostly just slutty, [Mata Hari.](http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/MT19_SS/MT19.html) [/QUOTE] That’s _Hedley_! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/34 "2007-03-26T12:07:16Z")
To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/35 "2007-03-26T12:32:34Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla? [/QUOTE] He’s still doing research over at the Freepers. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/36 "2007-03-27T12:51:40Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla? [/QUOTE] Is this thing on? Hello? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/37 "2007-03-27T23:02:10Z")
Hang on, it isn’t Thanksgiving yet. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/38 "2007-03-27T23:37:07Z")
Looks about as friendly and inviting as a set of spiky anal beads. Y’all are gonna have to play with yourselves on this one. Been there, done that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/39 "2007-03-28T00:10:28Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Looks about as friendly and inviting as a set of spiky anal beads. Y’all are gonna have to play with yourselves on this one. Been there, done that. [/QUOTE] I guess a close translation of that even sadder reply is: …\* I got nothing\*. [http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/162341/291](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/162341/291) > [@](#): > > At the press conference announcing the indictment of Libby, Fitzgerald stated: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > Before I talk about those charges and what the indictment alleges, I’d like to put the investigation into a little context. > > > > Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. > > > > Valerie Wilson’s friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. > > > > FITZGERALD: The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It’s important that a CIA officer’s identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation’s security. > > > > **Valerie Wilson’s cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.** > > The indictment itself states in Section 1-f: > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801086.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801086.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > f. Joseph Wilson was married to Valerie Plame Wilson (“Valerie Wilson”). At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. > > Even Republican Tom Davis (VA) at the Congressional hearing into the matter confirmed she was covert: > > “It’s a terrible thing that any CIA operative would be outed.., there’s no evidence here that the people that were outing this and pursuing this had **knowledge of the covert status**.” BTW that quote comes from a comment of the article, but it had the links that I needed, plus the cite is a good reply to the recent idiotic article by Bob Novack, Novack still shows that he keeps his head stuck where the sun don’t shine. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255/40 "2007-03-28T23:26:09Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] I guess a close translation of that even sadder reply is: …\* I got nothing\*. [/QUOTE] More like “I got a life.” You should consider getting one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valerie-plame-testifies/396255.md?page=3)