# Valid points made by villains **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579 "2013-12-05T16:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/181 "2013-12-17T11:39:00Z")
> [@YoungKusher](#): > > Another point. Hank Hill, or Beast, is a senator “I crafted exquisite legislation vis-a-vis propane and propane accessories.” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/182 "2013-12-17T15:24:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “I crafted exquisite legislation vis-a-vis propane and propane accessories.” I don’t know if anything in _King of the Hill_ would make it canonically impossible, but now I have a hilarious vision of the show being set in the Marvel universe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/183 "2013-12-17T16:39:36Z")
Saw \*The Unforgiven \*Sunday night and I would nominated Little Bill. He was definitely an SOB, but he did have a point about The Duck of Death, William Munny, Ned, and the Kid. They are assassins and a threat to a civilized society. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/184 "2013-12-17T16:44:24Z")
> [@YoungKusher](#): > > Mystique chooses to maintain her very unusual form when she could easily choose a normal one. To me there’s a key difference between -If Mystique wanders around in her “natural” form, people will point and murmur and she will be an object of curiosity and -If Mystique wanders around in her “natural” form, people will try to kill her The first strikes me as an unavoidable and immutable consequence of human nature. The second, not so much. But I think it’s a bit inconsistent to say that there’s an openly mutant US senator, but there’s also so much hatred for mutants that, merely walking down the street, they’re in danger for their lives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/185 "2013-12-17T16:54:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But I think it’s a bit inconsistent to say that there’s an openly mutant US senator, but there’s also so much hatred for mutants that, merely walking down the street, they’re in danger for their lives. IIRC, Hank’s not actually a Senator in the movie; he starts off the film as a Cabinet Secretary, and later gets tapped to be our ambassador to the UN. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/186 "2013-12-17T17:05:51Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … > > But I think it’s a bit inconsistent to say that there’s an openly mutant US senator, but there’s also so much hatred for mutants that, merely walking down the street, they’re in danger for their lives. Is it, though? Harvey Milk was an openly gay public figure in a time where such a person was at risk for hate crime. Sadly, we’re still in such a time, if not quite as much or in as many places. A progressive area, like San Francisco, New York City, or DC, might elect someone who could be attacked on the street in other parts of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/187 "2013-12-17T18:37:21Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Is it, though? Harvey Milk was an openly gay public figure in a time where such a person was at risk for hate crime. Sadly, we’re still in such a time, if not quite as much or in as many places. A progressive area, like San Francisco, New York City, or DC, might elect someone who could be attacked on the street in other parts of the country. And, of course, Milk was murdered for being gay, literally in office. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/188 "2013-12-17T20:27:31Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > ‘Our Man Flint’ was a James Bond rip-off made in the 60s starring James Coburn. In it he battles a super villainous organisation (to quote IMDB) - ‘known as GALAXY whose scientists are looking to pacify the world and devote humankind to scientific pursuits’. > > It’s a rubbish movie all round, as well. Except these intellectual elites (who were all male) seemed to have no problems mind-wiping the womanfolk and turning them into pleasure units. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/189 "2013-12-17T20:43:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And, of course, Milk was murdered for being gay, literally in office. How true is that? It seems like it was a component, but Dan White shot the Mayor first and then Milk. He had quit is job but wanted it back. Didn’t he have a decent relationship with Milk initially, but then developed animosity towards him due to Milk’s opposition to some of his [White’s] political initiatives? [Dan White’s Motive More About Betrayal Than Homophobia](http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-01-30/news/white-in-milk/) Seems more complex than just Milk was murdered for being gay. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/190 "2013-12-17T20:55:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Then you really shouldn’t be watching X-Men movies, because that’s why they exist. I largely agree with you if for no other reason than that’s what Stan Lee had in mind when he created them, but I can certainly understand. One of my guilty pleasures is True Blood, but I’ve always found the comparison the show does between homophobia and anti-vampire discrimination pretty ridiculous compared to the way vampires behave and think it almost legitimizes homophobia, though that’s not what Alan Ball, who is gay himself, is trying to do. Granted True Blood is deliberately tongue-in-cheek, or perhaps fang-in-cheek would be more appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/191 "2013-12-17T20:56:42Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > How true is that? It seems like it was a component, but Dan White shot the Mayor first and then Milk. He had quit is job but wanted it back. Didn’t he have a decent relationship with Milk initially, but then developed animosity towards him due to Milk’s opposition to some of his [White’s] political initiatives? > > [Dan White’s Motive More About Betrayal Than Homophobia](http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-01-30/news/white-in-milk/) > > Seems more complex than just Milk was murdered for being gay. That’s like saying Stephen Biko or Emmett Till weren’t murdered for being black. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/192 "2013-12-17T21:08:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s like saying Stephen Biko or Emmett Till weren’t murdered for being black. So why did White kill the Mayor first if it was just about killing a gay guy? I’m not a Dan White apologist, but it seems that White had a political grudge first with a guy that happened to be gay. From the link: > [@](#): > > Perhaps accuracy really doesn’t matter. Supervisor Ammiano says people will have their own take on that chapter in the city’s history. “Everybody sees things through different lenses,” he says. “But the outpouring of grief over Milk’s murder, which continues to this day, shows beyond a doubt how deep feelings were at that time.” > > Brian Basinger, president of the Harvey Milk Democratic Club, says homophobia, racism, and sexism inform an individual’s actions in society, but calling White a homophobe might be wrapping things up a little too neatly. “At least for me, I see him more now as a sad, tragic, and pathetic person,” he says. “Maybe that’s because I’ve become stronger, and seeing him as a homophobe would taint me as a victim. And that would give him power.” YMMV ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/193 "2013-12-17T22:19:26Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > How true is that? It seems like it was a component, but Dan White shot the Mayor first and then Milk. He had quit is job but wanted it back. Didn’t he have a decent relationship with Milk initially, but then developed animosity towards him due to Milk’s opposition to some of his [White’s] political initiatives? > > [Dan White’s Motive More About Betrayal Than Homophobia](http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-01-30/news/white-in-milk/) > > Seems more complex than just Milk was murdered for being gay. White was also a liberal Democrat, like every other elected official in San Francisco since time immemorial. Not exactly an agent of Jerry Falwell. Gays were outraged that White was found guilty of manslaughter rather than murder. They mocked the defense attroeny’s suggestion that White was mentally ill (they called hat the “Twinkie defense”). White HAD to be evil, rather than insane! White inconveniently killed himself (oops… guess maybe he WAS mentally disturbed after all). ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/194 "2013-12-17T22:57:07Z")
The more I turn into a reactionary old fart, the more I think that the villains of Hot Fuzz have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/195 "2013-12-17T23:18:24Z")
> [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](#): > > The more I turn into a reactionary old fart, the more I think that the villains of Hot Fuzz have a point. Speaking of which (sort of), I used to be a big fan of _The Dukes of Hazzard_ when I was a kid. Now that I realize that they’re peddling moonshine (that probably makes people blind), that their reckless driving really _is_ an issue, but more importantly now that I understand the significance of the flag painted on top of their car and its “General Lee” moniker… fuck them Duke boys, for real. ---
**Author:** ![YoungKusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3e96dc/32.png) [@YoungKusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoungKusher)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/196 "2013-12-19T06:07:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To me there’s a key difference between > > -If Mystique wanders around in her “natural” form, people will point and murmur and she will be an object of curiosity > > and > > -If Mystique wanders around in her “natural” form, people will try to kill her > > The first strikes me as an unavoidable and immutable consequence of human nature. The second, not so much To accurately convey what I was trying to say, I think the second should read: -If Mystique wanders around in her “natural” form, people will fear her, and try to avoid/discriminate against her, because of the potential danger having her around carries with it. They might kick her out of a bar(the same way they kicked wolverine out of a bar). Essentially out of misunderstanding, and fear. Those two things tend to go hand in hand. While this whole “fear” thing might sound synonymous with some forms if racism, it’s really not. Some white people in NYC might cross the street if they see a suspicious looking black guy heading there way. The difference is that mutants aren’t just limited to mugging you with a knife or a gun. They could have an infinite number of powers that could do much greater harm than a mugging could. Not that mugging isn’t serious, but I would rather be mugged than have Mystique kill me and assume my identity. ]. > [@](#): > > But I think it’s a bit inconsistent to say that there’s an openly mutant US senator, but there’s also so much hatred for mutants that, merely walking down the street, they’re in danger for their lives. I never said that the mutants themselves were in danger from hateful humans. I merely made the point that normal people would fear openly blue scaly mutants greatly because of the unknown factor. For all they know she is dangerous. Beast is a government official, I’m sure his powers have been evaluated and catalogued, therefore providing him with a transparent public image. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “I crafted exquisite legislation vis-a-vis propane and propane accessories.” Lol. Some kind of Freudian slip on my part. I thought I edited that out too, but I’m pretty new, so I must have screwed that up. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/197 "2013-12-19T08:31:48Z")
Jessica Rabbit: “I’m not bad. I’m just drawn that way.” Although technically not a villain, she did play twiddlysticks with another man. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/198 "2013-12-19T09:19:38Z")
Patty-cake, dear. Please keep up. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/199 "2013-12-19T09:32:11Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Patty-cake, dear. Please keep up. :smack:Patty-cake it was! Where the hell did I get twiddlysticks from? Doesn’t even make sense. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579/200 "2013-12-19T20:06:55Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > Where the hell did I get twiddlysticks from? Doesn’t even make sense. I’m sure some of the characters in that movie wouldn’t mind if Jessica Rabbit twiddled their stick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valid-points-made-by-villains/675579.md?page=11)