No, that’s all entirely a choice on your part. A better example would be if you were born with an unsightly birth-mark on your face, sure you may be able to hide it with make-up, but why should you have to?
Shaving/grooming is just as much of a “choice” and effort as shapeshifting. As in you can opt to say “eh, fuck it” ; but there’ll be social consequences. Mystique simply faces more of them because on top of her appearance not fitting in she’s quite obviously a mutant, with all the fantasy racism that implies (and a pretty legitimate dose of fear, considering she might also be able to explode people with a thought for all they know ; and there apparently are terrorist mutants out there).
But say I showed up at a DopeFest looking like fucking Radagast and smelling like an Orc, people made comments and I replied I do it “because I shouldn’t *have *to shave !”, you’d think I have a valid point ?
Also, newsflash : if you have an unsightly birth-mark on your face, people are going to stare at it. And they’ll stare (or make a point not to stare, which is just as awkward) if you’re in a wheelchair, or you’re blind, or have lost an arm, are gargantuan, or have a big hairy boil, or any number of other not-your-choice visible things that makes you stand out from the crowd. It’s unfair and uncomfortable, but that’s just people being people.
And it’s sure not going to change by killing random people. Trust me : simply learning not to give a fuck instead ? Easier in the long run. Or the short run. Or any run.
“Not giving a fuck,” is hard to do when the people you don’t give a fuck about keeping trying to murder you with giant purple robots.
I’m not really up to speed on comic continuity, but weren’t the giant purple robots in response to Magneto et al. being homicidal buttheads in the first place ?
'sides, one would think giant purple murderbots on the loose would be a compelling reason not to be Out and Proud just yet 
; but it’s kind of a moot point since *they *see through shapeshifting (in the Ultimate comics anyway - they go straight to genetic analysis. Which is an illegal search and seizure if’n you ask me.)
We’ve spent the past few centuries trying to encourage people to get along despite outward appearances and you think we should just roll that all back because, hey, that’s just how people are? (jerks apparently according to you)
Sorry, you’re still wrong. Everyone has the the same expectations to be groomed and polite, and it takes everyone the same amount of effort to look presentable (as opposed to “beautiful”, which is a different kettle entirely). You are still presentable with birthmarks, minority skin, and burns. You are not presentable with dirt or BO. Same for everyone.
And by the same token, everyone is entitled to have the skin they were born with without facing undue trouble for it. See? Same for everyone.
And “rudeness” isn’t the issue here. Everyone deals with “rudeness”. The issue is “abuse”, which no one should have to deal with.
No, I think people *should *be accepting Mystique’s peculiar brand of hotness, blue skin and all. Just like I think people should accept LGBT people, and black people, and whatever other discriminated against minority you might think of.
I do think deciding that if they don’t they’re fit for culling is taking it a smidge too far. Educate not murder, that’s my motto.
What’s deemed “presentable” is utterly arbitrary and consensual, though.
Sure. As long as everyone faces the same standard, and it is achievable for everyone without insane dedication (“constant effort”), let’s just knock ourselves out, shall we?
I think it is ridiculous to compare mutant discrimination to discrimination of gay people or minorities.
Being a mutant is unprecedented in our world, therefore, completely different from any form of discrimination that people in our world have experienced.
Like others have mentioned, there are different implications of seeing a blue scaly person walking around compared with seeing 2 gay people holding hands or a black person. Mutants in that world would strike at least a little fear in most people walking around. Fear that they might have some unstoppable mutant power that normal humans can’t do anything about.
When Mystique says, “we should’t have to,” she’s right. But she can blame her fellow terrorist mutants for ruining her chance to “fit in” as well as she might have been able to do if mutants were thought of as heroes.
Another point. Hank Hill, or Beast, is a senator and lives his life in the public eye and it doesn’t seem to bother him. Maybe Mystique has a skewed view of the world, because if she were to catch someone staring at here, she likely would snarl or do something obscene that is inappropriate no matter who you are. That kinda seems to be her personality.
Then you really shouldn’t be watching X-Men movies, because that’s why they exist.
Yes, a major message in the movies is a lesson on bigotry itself, but that isn’t “why they exist.” There are many reasons why the movies exist. Stan Lee said that the whole principal of the xmen comics was to be an anti-bigotry story.
The only movie that has a popularized real world allegory, is xmen first class. Yes, bigotry is present in all of the movies, but it is directed at mutants being unsafe or dangerous to have around. That is totally different from calling 2 gay guys faggots simply because you don’t approve of their lifestyle.
In the end, bigotry regarding mutants still differs greatly from any real-world bigotry.
And please, don’t try to tell me what i should or should not be doing.
In this specific individual case…yep! Just as there have been blacks in the American workplace who acted like jerks, and then whined about racism when they were rebuked. No, sir, I’m not rebuking you for being black, but for being a jerk. But, alas, some specific individuals don’t get this.
It shouldn’t be used to take away from the real point, which is that some social injustices actually are based on race. Mystique being a jerk doesn’t justify the Reverend Stryker Crusade.
It’s always embarrassing when a good political cause is latched on to by an egregious jerk. God save us from our well-meaning but incompetent allies!
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Sure. As long as everyone faces the same standard, and it is achievable for everyone without insane dedication (“constant effort”), let’s just knock ourselves out, shall we?
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Eh, if you want.
Still, while we’re at it, and on an avowedly petty rejoinder, one notes Mystique doesn’t adhere to the presentable standard either : “no shirt, no shoes, no service”. Possibly another of those “slave” conventions she decided weren’t fit for Real Mutants 
“Bobby, have you tried… *not *being a mutant ?” deep awkward silence. First movie.
Hell, the character of Rogue and her arc throughout the first 3 movies is pretty much 100% teenage gay (w)angst. Plus have you noticed just how often butch Wolverine somehow winds up shirtless ? 
Yeah, Mutant=LGBT isn’t subtext, it’s pretty much text, as acknowledged by every creator who has given a statement on the matter.
[QUOTE=Kobal2]
Eh, if you want.
Still, while we’re at it, and on an avowedly petty rejoinder, one notes Mystique doesn’t adhere to the presentable standard either : “no shirt, no shoes, no service”. Possibly another of those “slave” conventions she decided weren’t fit for Real Mutants
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, but to be petty right back, she’s never shown at work on social occasions either, she’s pretty much “in the field” throughout the whole thing. Mutant society appears to have a very relaxed approach to public nudity anyway, given how people can’t keep their clothes on worth a damn. (caveat: haven’t seen First Class. Which isn’t the same continuity any way).
Let freedom swing, I think you mean.
Like the ability to transmit AIDS.
As has been mentioned before, “mutant = LGBT” is pretty damned explicit, at least in the movies. (I’ve never read the comics, but I imagine that back in the '60s, it was “mutant = Jews”.) Given that equation, the mutants with dangerous powers - who walk unseen among the other mutants - are analogous to the HIV positive. Remember, the first movie came out in 2000, and in the fifteen years previous to that, HIV was a mysterious killer that had no cure, was inevitably fatal, and - scariest of all to the “non-mutants” - could kill anybody.
So no, comparing mutant discrimination in X-Men to homophobia is not ridiculous at all.
So… are you agreeing with me, or disagreeing with me? You seem to be taking both positions at the same time, here.
No, it’s not. Anti-mutant prejudice is a prevailing theme in every incarnation of the X-Men franchise, from movies to TV shows to the comics themselves. The entire plot of the second movie is about a guy trying to murder every mutant on the planet, not just the “dangerous” ones.
Yes, I’ve heard that one in real life before, too.
I’m just saying, if you don’t like stories that are explicit analogies to racism or homophobia, the X-Men is literally the worst possible franchise to be a fan of.
This is what I’m talking about. So, there’s gridlock and it takes the central government a long time to accomplish anything? And the uber-wealthy have an easier time navigating through civil and criminal liability than everyone else? Well, knock me down with a feather!
And, IIRC, these really are the worst kinds of sins the Republic is shown to be guilty of. It’s the same shit that *any *large democracy is gonna deal with. It’s the same shit the U.S. has in spades. It doesn’t mean it’s therefore alright for the eastern seaboard to secede from the Union, and it certainly doesn’t mean it’s alright to fight a horrible civil war over it.
Yeah, keep in mind, the first movie opens with the Trade Federation, a member of the Republic, trying to annex Naboo, who is also a member of the Republic. Which is the conflict that eventually blows up into the civil war. That’s basically like Texas seceding because the federal government won’t let them conquer Oklahoma.
Okay, just to clear the air here a little bit. I should not have used the word “ridiculous,” i should have said i do not think that it is an entirely accurate comparison. My apologies, i didn’t intend for my enthusiasm in that statement to be so inflammatory to the topic at hand.
All i could find on this was what Stan Lee had said. Which at that time was really only meant to be a parable to racism. The basic lesson is there for the readers/viewers about the harmful effects of racism, but the details still differ greatly.
There may be subtle similarities, but i don’t recall anything jumping out and making me think “this must be what it’s like to be a homosexual.” And i said what i said because of the specific example Miller gave. His example was more along the lines of bigotry not homophobia. Those are 2 totally different things.
Lol. I agree that bigotry is a theme in the movies, but i don’t agree with that being the reason they exist and i don’t agree with your statement i originally quoted. I don’t think it can be accurately compared to any specific form of discrimination present in our world. There are specific moments that are identifiable with LGBT or racism, but as a whole, mutants carry a much different form of minority baggage.
I worded it that way for a reason. The first 3 movies did not have popularized themes. Xmen first class has a number of easily found reviews specifically talking about an anti-prejudice theme because of the time period. I also acknowledged that all of the movies do have bigotry…
I’m very sorry that you have to put up with people like that.
Okay, were getting a little off base here. I really enjoy the xmen movies. And i never said i didn’t enjoy movies with analogies to real-world problems. And I’m just saying, don’t get offended that i don’t think LGBT is a great comparison to mutants. Has anyone ever tried to exterminate LGBTs on a global scale? No, because i don’t think Hitler counts since it wasn’t a major point of his campaign.
My original post on this matter was to make the point that your example wasn’t very good.
You asked a loaded question to make a point that i don’t think is comparable. Calling someone a faggot is pretty far from simply being treated not normal. Beast is an openly blue furry creature who is also a senator. You don’t see him complaining of discrimination in that movie. I’m sure he experiences it, but i envision him having a more mature view towards the matter than Mystique. Mystique chooses to maintain her very unusual form when she could easily choose a normal one. If that causes her to be ridiculed, then yes it is her fault for not finding a solution to the problem whatever that may be. The solution might be to simply avoid situations where discrimination might occur, or changing her appearance, or trying to peaceably enlighten her persecutors. Should she have to do this? Absolutely not, but there isn’t anything that’s going to magically fix the problem so she just has to deal with it for the time being. She could live a perfectly happy, functional life without her natural appearance hindering that. She just has to find a way like everybody else.