# Valteron is trolling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088 "2007-12-24T03:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/1 "2007-12-24T03:00:59Z")
I’ll stop short short of saying that **Valteron** is always a troll, but I just can’t see how this thread: [Christmas is a Christian fraud!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448884), is anything more than obvious trolling. It’s in G.D. He doesn’t pose a question. He doesn’t ask for a debate. It’s a thinly veiled attack that never asks for a discussion. It’s a self important, egotistical masturbatory diatribe just before Christmas meant to do one thing - stir some shit up. That’s trolling, no? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/2 "2007-12-24T03:08:24Z")
so why not just report it to mod with the report bad post link? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/3 "2007-12-24T03:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] That’s trolling, no? [/QUOTE] Actually, like **John Mace** wryly noted in the thread, it’s looks a lot more akin to “witnessing” to me ( or “anti-witnessing” if you like, depending on how strict you want to define things ). Which has always been permitted in GD. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/4 "2007-12-24T03:32:53Z")
**Revtim** , **Tomndebb** is already in the thread. I just think that the average dopers have more actual power to stop this crap than the mods. Peer pressure, so to speak. A mod already knows, and is dealing with it as best he knows how, but I wanted the Pit to know too. **Tamerlane** , there is witnessing (which is discouraged, I might add) and then there is being an asshole. We all know damn well he’s an atheist, I don’t give a shit about that. I may not like the French, but I don’t go picking fights with 'em just because it’s two days before Bastille day. That’s what he’s doing. The timing is not a coincidence. He’s trolling for a reaction. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/5 "2007-12-24T03:37:42Z")
And the sad part is: You’re giving it to him. DNFTT. So easy to say, so hard to live up to. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/6 "2007-12-24T03:41:32Z")
We’ll just have to make a special rule for him. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/7 "2007-12-24T03:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] **Revtim** , **Tomndebb** is already in the thread. I just think that the average dopers have more actual power to stop this crap than the mods. Peer pressure, so to speak. . [/QUOTE] Peer pressure a troll? That just makes them…trollier…or something. Your just angy because your afraid that Christianity will fall apart as soon as **Valteron** gets the word out that there may not have actually been farm animals present at the birth of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/8 "2007-12-24T03:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] And the sad part is: You’re giving it to him. DNFTT. So easy to say, so hard to live up to. [/QUOTE] Yeah. I know. But he doesn’t _always_ troll. I’m hoping peer pressure will shout him down and make him stop being a dick. It’s almost impossible for the mods to enforce the “don’t be a jerk” rule; it’s usually up to the community at large. As I said in the OP, **Valteron** isn’t always a troll. That’s why the mods hands are tied. But fuck me if he’s not trolling here. He needs to know that the average members of this board don’t like that shit. His OP was not offered in good faith, and I’m calling him on it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/9 "2007-12-24T04:04:35Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] **Tamerlane** , there is witnessing (which is discouraged, I might add) and then there is being an asshole. We all know damn well he’s an atheist, I don’t give a shit about that. I may not like the French, but I don’t go picking fights with 'em just because it’s two days before Bastille day. That’s what he’s doing. The timing is not a coincidence. He’s trolling for a reaction. [/QUOTE] Witnessing is perfectly acceptable in GD. That’s where it goes. Of course the timing isn’t coincidence. It’s meant to be _topical_. Should he make a post about the historical roots of Christ’s birth in July? You may not like the way he said it but it’s all arguably true. I don’t think he’s trolling at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/10 "2007-12-24T04:30:55Z")
It’s not trolling. It’s just really fucking stupid. Kinda like the cross in the urinal thread. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/11 "2007-12-24T04:43:48Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Witnessing is perfectly acceptable in GD. [/QUOTE] I would say “tolerated”. He’s still a dick and he’s only witnessing to provoke a reaction. That means trolling. Thankfully, he’s not getting much traction in that thread (even atheists are mocking him), but I still think he’s trolling. I can’t accuse him of that in GD, hence this thread. I don’t buy the “topical” argument because he didn’t ask for a debate. Even if it is just witnessing, he’s still a troll. On preview, I think **Gorsnack** has a point. The guy’s an idiot. I’m going to stop wasting my thought on him. I’ve said my piece for now. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/12 "2007-12-24T04:45:17Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Your just angy because your afraid that Christianity will fall apart as soon as **Valteron** gets the word out that there may not have actually been farm animals present at the birth of Jesus. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about the rest of you, but my faith in Christmas Carol Inerrancy has been shattered forever. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/13 "2007-12-24T04:50:52Z")
I’m sure that thread is destined for the Pit, and should have started there. Then we wouldn’t have had to waste another thread on it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/14 "2007-12-24T04:55:21Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] I don’t know about the rest of you, but my faith in Christmas Carol Inerrancy has been shattered forever. [/QUOTE] My problem with reading the OP in GD is that now I have the riffs from The Little Drummer Boy in my brain, and I shall never get to sleep tonight. Perhaps… WE THREE KINGS OF ORIENT ARE… Ah, that’s better… ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/15 "2007-12-24T04:59:23Z")
**Monkey** , you are well aware that people of other faiths get quite fed up with the over the top displays of Christmas. I celebrate Christmas with my family and damned if I know what any of the usual trappings have to do with the birth of Christ. And for pity’s sake, Christmas is a _government holiday_ in the US. There aren’t any nationwide holidays for the holy days of any other religions. **Valteron** is expressing the viewpoint of many, many people who are either mystified as to how the birth of Christ could have anything to do with Santa, reindeer, trees, bright shiny decorations, presents, and oh, yeah, why an entire country shuts down to celebrate the faith not shared by everyone. Do you cry troll at those who complained that public school prayer excluded their children? Do you cry troll at those who have fought for separation of church and state? If the answer is yes, then my next question is: Are you so insulated that you feel that your personal belief system is shared by every inhabitant on this planet, and that everyone should treat Christmas with reverence whether December the 25th holds spiritual significance for them or not? If so, get over yourself. Christians have been forewarned that faith will be tested, and many Christians agree that those tests can serve to make it stronger, which should make your Christmas even merrier. ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/16 "2007-12-24T05:09:01Z")
And where did you get the idea for this original OP? [QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] I’ll stop short short of saying that **Valteron** is always a troll, but I just can’t see how this thread: [Christmas is a Christian fraud!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448884), is anything more than obvious trolling. It’s in G.D. He doesn’t pose a question. He doesn’t ask for a debate. It’s a thinly veiled attack that never asks for a discussion. It’s a self important, egotistical masturbatory diatribe just before Christmas meant to do one thing - stir some shit up. That’s trolling, no? [/QUOTE] Maybe from here? [QUOTE=tomndebb] In what way? There is no debate posited in the OP. He does not so much as call for a poll or acknowledge that he is expressing an opinion while seeking the opinions of others, so there was no reason to send it to **IMHO**. Valtreron typically posts things attacking religion in which he expresses the general thrust of his criticism in a recognizable way, but gets historical claims muddled or backwards. He has repeated that pattern in this OP. This would have been a **Pit** rant had it had some bile in it. It might have been a **GQ** if he had asked for the facts that he asserts. I could have sent this to **MPSIMS** as I sent his last content free rant, but I magnanimously chose to let him play in **GD**. I would say that his frequent injections of pointless threads into **GD** in which he attempts to make bold condemnations of religion while generally missing the mark are uncalled for, but I suspect that you meant something different, entirely. [/QUOTE] Looks like things are already being handled by those in authority. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/17 "2007-12-24T06:11:01Z")
Heck, I’d cheer for him being banned just to spare us more of those pointless post titles. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/18 "2007-12-24T07:53:46Z")
Jesus Christ, **Beaucarnea** , I know _The Wixard of OZ_ is traditional in the holiday season, but you gotta lay off the scarecrows. You are burying me in straw men. I don’t even know where to begin. I’ll try to take your complaints in order with out parsing your posts. Let’s see if I can do this in order. OK, I hate Christmas displays, too. Even ranted about it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=439859). I don’t like the government. My libertarian politics run more along the lines of “live, let live, and don’t be a dick to you’re fellow hairless apes”. **Valteron** is expressing his viewpoint in the manner of a nutcase standing outside a mosque screaming about how Allah is the [Moon God](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp). I don’t begrudge any religions their holidays. I’m a staunch proponent of the separation of Church and State. Rudolph and Santa have nothing to do with my faith, and I wish people would realize that those symbols are secular, not religious. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, I didn’t get the idea for this thing from **Tomndebb** , either. I just know trolling when I see it. And **Valteron** is trolling. For some reason, I don’t think he’s going to post in this thread. That idiot is not going to defend himself in the pit, because he _can’t_. Truly, I would not be surprised if this guy really doesn’t have much of a bone to pick with Christianity, and is instead posting about how the holes in a urinal are shaped like a cross and the little drummer boy proves that Christians are pagans in order to amuse himself. That’s a troll. i.e. posting bullshit to see what reaction it will get. It’s juvenile, and I’m calling him on it. **Beaucarnea** , look. I have now bone to pick with you, but you have to realize something. That guy saw your _Are verifiable facts artifacts mentioned in the Bible taken as proof of divinity?_ thread and he tried to fish the board with those themes. Thankfully, nobody bought bit, but defend him. You asked an interesting question. **Valteron** is trying to fuck with people. That’s trolling. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/19 "2007-12-24T08:07:47Z")
Wait a minute…Voltron is trolling? But…but…he’s the Defender of the Universe! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088/20 "2007-12-24T08:19:42Z")
This is a reasonable point to consider: > [@](#): > > **A Monkey With A Gun:** : It’s in G.D. He doesn’t pose a question. He doesn’t ask for a debate. Maybe the information that **Valteron** posted was new to him, but I doubt that it was new info for anyone that he was directing his post to. Should we believe that because some one was unnecessarily specific in a Christmas carol, all of Christianity is rubbish? Oh well. He was even using the kind of argument which makes the least sense: Predicting what Christians will do wrong in the future and blaming them for that. He’s bellyaching about Christmas, but at least he has family coming and I’ll bet someone cooks dinner for him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/valteron-is-trolling/431088.md?page=2)