# Value/Attributes of a soul. Why someone would want another's soul... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531 "2010-09-21T13:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/21 "2010-09-21T17:32:38Z")
Another question would be, if Satan is a bad guy and “bad souls” go to Hell, why whould he torment them? Wouldnt he want to REWARD bad people? Another intersting idea from the great George Carlin : "In the beginning there were two people. Two souls. Cool. Now there are 6 billion people. Where did all the souls come from? SOMEONE IS PRINTING UP SOULS!! Doesn’t that lower their value?" ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/22 "2010-09-21T17:34:45Z")
_These_ were GQ responses? Good grief! Not a theist, but I will play one on TV: “possession of souls” rather obviously (to the degree that religions embrace the concept at all) seems to be mainly about fealty/slavery. That is, it’s in the sense “I have fifty souls in my employ at my Burger King location”. It’s all about who you have control over, or you have working under you (in the case where the relationship is not coerced). The reason why souls are being traded rather than just people is because in these religions, “people” die, “souls” are eternal. Neither God nor Satan has a lasting interest in your temporary shell; they’re interested in the long-term relationship. So the term ‘soul’ is used. Exacerbating this is the fact that clearly, even if Satan or whoever _has_ claimed your soul, he obviously isn’t controlling you yet on earth. So the presumption pretty unilaterally is that the claim doesn’t take effect until you actually die. This is overtly specified in the case of Faustian stories; you can play for the rest of your life, but only when your “time has come” do you die and have your soul taken. (Sometimes you’re taken “body and soul”, but the soul is always the point.) So. Soul-trade is about acquiring servants/slaves/people-as-possessions. That doesn’t answer the question: why do it? Clearly the answer would be different for the different agents involved, and depend on which fiction/dogma you are using. As possible explanations go, the most charitable one would seem to be “I claim your soul so that the other guy doesn’t get it”, when the other guy wants you for a more nefarious purpose. In this case it would be faux-ownership to protect freedom, sort of like citizenship in a country. All other explanations are based on selfish benefit for the enslaver, be it to satisfy ego, establish a workforce, to have company in misery, or to stock the buffet with. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/23 "2010-09-21T17:40:28Z")
> [@Mozart1220](#): > > Another question would be, if Satan is a bad guy and “bad souls” go to Hell, why whould he torment them? Wouldnt he want to REWARD bad people? > > Another intersting idea from the great George Carlin : "In the beginning there were two people. Two souls. Cool. > > Now there are 6 billion people. Where did all the souls come from? SOMEONE IS PRINTING UP SOULS!! Doesn’t that lower their value?" Short answer is that Satan is a dick. Longer answer involves some stuff about the souls actually tormenting themselves, as it takes a basically self-loathing person to be committed to Hell. Very long answer involves considering the source of the reports that Satan actually does torment souls in his care. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/24 "2010-09-21T17:50:33Z")
> [@ultraman100](#): > > > [@shiftless](#): > > > > To make more horcruxes. > > > > I’ve always assumed it gave one control over the person’s afterlife. Like, if I had your soul I could give it to Satan rather than going to hell myself. I’m not sure God would take such a legalistic view though. Or maybe I could trade your soul in for more life for myself? > > would you agree that the soul is life? If soul = life then wouldn’t my tomato plants have a soul as well? They certainly possess life… well… all except that one on the end of the row. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > My Master like to collect souls for two reasons: > > 1. **Minions**. A soul, a tiny fragment of the mind of The Creator, is necessary to maintain the animation of living flesh; every living creature has one. The soul is essentially on loan to the individual, and its purpose is to act as a catalyst–transforming the will of the creator into the action of the creature. Imbuing creatures of modest and higher intelligence with a soul often gives rise to sentience, and this is where things get dicey. The sentient being can sometimes recognize the existence of the soul, and it also realizes that while the soul is immortal, the creature is not. The creature realizes he is, at some level, a pawn who was created to do the will of another, and then die in any number of ways ranging from peaceful and sudden to grizzly and protracted. Upon realizing this, the embittered creature is open to suggestions by my master who concedes he can do nothing about the curse of mortality, but he CAN make the creature’s brief life more pleasant. A binding spiritual contract is executed wherein the soul is bound to the flesh itself. When the creature dies and is interred, my master summons the body/soul to him. For a period of time, the flesh is reanimated and serves a number of vital service roles from menial labor to earthside visitation. Eventually my master ends the body/soul union and performs the final act of the rite–the flesh and soul are unbound, and the soul is assumed by my master. He is angelic, angels do not need, nor can they utilize soul in any directly meaningful way. He collects the souls in a single vessel, which leads us to the second purpose: > > 2. **Incarceration of The Creator** : One claims the desert grain by grain; the ocean drop by drop. It is a monumental task, but he has been given eternity to accomplish it. Eventually my master will possess such a significant portion of the mind of The Creator that all of creation will be up for grabs. Love it! > [@yabob](#): > > Consult your tax attorney for the advantages of soul proprietorship. _Guffaw_ Now THAT was funny! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/25 "2010-09-21T17:50:43Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Chopped up with capers, onions and sun dried tomatoes they are great on wholemeal toast. Soul food, huh? Anyway, in fiction, the souls of virgins and children seem to be especially desirable, so I gather there’s a high depreciation rate. ---
**Author:** ![Doxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Doxy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doxy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/26 "2010-09-21T17:52:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > > > Chopped up with capers, onions and sun dried tomatoes they are great on wholemeal toast. > > Soul food, huh? > > Anyway, in fiction, the souls of virgins and children seem to be especially desirable, so I gather there’s a high depreciation rate. Oh please. Let’s not bring mythological creatures into the discussion! “Virgins”! What’s next? Unicorns and fairies??? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/27 "2010-09-21T18:36:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyway, in fiction, the souls of virgins and children seem to be especially desirable, so I gather there’s a high depreciation rate. Since when? Dragons and Unicorns like virgins, but they’re dealing with the person, not the soul. Can you give examples of God or the Devil preferring virgin or child souls? (Souls specifically; “suffer the little children” was talking about mortals.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/28 "2010-09-21T19:01:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > Anyway, in fiction, the souls of virgins and children seem to be especially desirable, so I gather there’s a high depreciation rate. > > Since when? Dragons and Unicorns like virgins, but they’re dealing with the person, not the soul. Can you give examples of God or the Devil preferring virgin or child souls? (Souls specifically; “suffer the little children” was talking about mortals.) Well, there’s the documentary _The Devil and Max Devlin_, in which Elliot Gould, seeking to avoid an eternity in Hell with Bill Cosby, can salvage his own damned soul if he can deliver three young replacement souls… ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/29 "2010-09-21T19:02:19Z")
I think the simplest way to look at a soul is that it is the essence of who that person is outside of their physical being, a culmination of their thoughts, feelings, memories, etc. As such, I think the desirability of owning another’s soul becomes quite clear. Consider, a slaver owns the bodies of his slaves, but he cannot meaningfully control their thoughts, feelings, or memories; instead, he can only utilize the person’s body. As such, owning a person’s soul would be the ethereal equivalent of slavery, in which one is able to exert meaningful control over those aspects. This is why I could image a being such as Satan desiring the ownership of souls or even other mortals as well. Certainly, that degree of control over someone is far more powerful than simply controlling their body, and as many beings (mortal or not) desire power, it should logically follow that they’d desire souls. Another perspective would be that souls are not discrete. Instead, they are more like little pockets of a larger, interconnected web, or pieces of a universal soul. And this could make for other interesting possibilities. Of course, many who subscribe to this view could argue that, as part of the universal soul that his soul is no more his to give or for another to receive than one could give the fountain at the local park to another member of the community. Anyway, if this is the perspective one takes and that it is possible to own multiple souls, it actually could, in a way, make one more “powerful” because one would then be a larger part of this. I suppose, if taken to an extreme, that if one possessed enough souls, one would, in essence become god, or at least a god. Or maybe he would just have a greater potential for influencing all others as the strongest piece of this structure of souls. Take your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/30 "2010-09-21T19:21:04Z")
To gain the soul’s skills and memories? And because there can be only one? > [@shiftless](#): > > I’ve always assumed it gave one control over the person’s afterlife. Like, if I had your soul I could give it to Satan rather than going to hell myself. I’m not sure God would take such a legalistic view though. Or maybe I could trade your soul in for more life for myself? You should also be able to “incorporate” souls. e.g. the souls of BP and Exxon go to hell but not their shareholders. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/31 "2010-09-21T20:05:05Z")
The question I’ve always wondered is why the soul-bartering system is so capitalistic, and who enforces such an exchange? Why would someone need to give their soul to Satan instead of just taking what Satan has to offer and giving him the middle finger? Why does Satan not simply take souls from us puny humans? And why is the ratio for souls always seems to be 1:1, where favors, small or large, are priced with the exactitude of an atomic clock? Why can’t, for example, someone exchange a short few hours in hell for the ability to fly? Or the left leg part of your soul for an equal amount of wealth? And if the soul is so valuable, why isn’t god himself, or his angels, out bartering for souls in the afterlife stock exchange? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/32 "2010-09-21T20:53:05Z")
I wonder if the notion of “selling one’s soul” ultimately can be traced back to that remark of Jesus’s (which was quoted by George Harrison in the Beatles’ “Within You, Without You”): [QUOTE=Mark 8:36-37] For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/33 "2010-09-21T20:53:22Z")
A big one for me is: Are souls created equal? If I’m a stupid jerk, can I blame god for giving me a stupid jerk soul? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/34 "2010-09-21T20:54:15Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why would someone need to give their soul to Satan instead of just taking what Satan has to offer and giving him the middle finger? Why does Satan not simply take souls from us puny humans? The usual rule is that Satan is simply forbidden by God from taking souls that aren’t sold or given to him. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > And why is the ratio for souls always seems to be 1:1, where favors, small or large, are priced with the exactitude of an atomic clock? Why can’t, for example, someone exchange a short few hours in hell for the ability to fly? I’ve seen [that one](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0641.html): [QUOTE=Order of the Stick] “YOU SOLD YOUR SOUL TO FIENDS?!” “Technically, it is more of a fixed term lease with an occupancy rate yet to be determined.” [/QUOTE] I also recall a short story where a guy rented his soul to Hell, spent a few days in a sort of spiritual waiting room and popped back into his body in a jail cell. “The Popsicle Stick Killer, that’s what they called you!” > [@YogSosoth](#): > > And if the soul is so valuable, why isn’t god himself, or his angels, out bartering for souls in the afterlife stock exchange? An old time author named Mack Reynolds wrote one like that; a guy sold his soul, did good deeds with the power he was given, then was surprised to end up in a place that didn’t look like Hell at all. “What makes you think that only the other side is interested in souls? This is not Hell, nor am I a demon.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/35 "2010-09-21T21:03:45Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A big one for me is: Are souls created equal? If I’m a stupid jerk, can I blame god for giving me a stupid jerk soul? Well, blaming God for that is something a stupid jerk would probably do, so… yes. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/36 "2010-09-21T21:04:54Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > And why is the ratio for souls always seems to be 1:1, where favors, small or large, are priced with the exactitude of an atomic clock? Why can’t, for example, someone exchange a short few hours in hell for the ability to fly? Or the left leg part of your soul for an equal amount of wealth? One doesn’t get the impression that Satan offers partial deals very often. (And I’m not sure souls are supposed to be divisible anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/37 "2010-09-21T21:43:37Z")
All I know is that I got a great Peavey guitar amp for my soul back in '78. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/38 "2010-09-21T21:52:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > A big one for me is: Are souls created equal? If I’m a stupid jerk, can I blame god for giving me a stupid jerk soul? > > Well, blaming God for that is something a stupid jerk would probably do, so… yes. Seriously though, are souls blank slates? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/39 "2010-09-21T21:59:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > Well, blaming God for that is something a stupid jerk would probably do, so… yes. > > Seriously though, are souls blank slates? Different debate, fun thread, not this one. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531/40 "2010-09-22T15:45:12Z")
> [@ultraman100](#): > > - This thread is for people who believe in the existence of a soul - > > How is the soul valuable? Why would someone want to acquire another’s soul? Maybe it makes them more powerful? If so, in what sense? I can’t contribute in the way you want, because I don’t believe in the soul, but I’ve found the best answer came from the mid-80s version of the Twilight Zone episode called “Eye of Newton”. IIRC, the Demon played by Ron Glass answers the question “What do you do with the souls you collect?” by saying after a reasonable markup, they sell them to one of the big chains. On one planet, there’s a race of sentient binary digits, and the Professor could possibly work his way up from a decimal to a fraction. It’s as good an answer as any, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-attributes-of-a-soul-why-someone-would-want-anothers-soul/554531.md?page=3)