# Value of a Piece of Eight **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2023, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978 "2023-06-23T07:24:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/1 "2023-06-23T07:24:37Z")
When I see tales of buccaneers fighting over pieces of eight, I always wonder, just how much was one of them worth at the time. How much could a single coin purchase? Was it a day’s wages? A month? An hour? I realize that the term “piece of eight” was applied to many different coins over a long period. But they were all worth 8 _reals_. Did the value of a real vary much over the period? If you need a specific date, lets say mid 18th Century, about the time of Treasure Island. I think that would be the [Philip V 8 real piece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Philip_V_Coin_silver,_8_Reales_Mexico.jpg), from 1739. This has proved hard to Google. There are thousands of web sites telling me the history, showing various designs, or offering to sell me one. That’s not what I want. To be clear, I’m not asking for the current value. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/2 "2023-06-23T07:56:42Z")
The Spanish dollar circulated widely and was internationally acceptable because it reliably contained a fixed quantity of silver — about 25.56g. Its value was based entirely on the silver content and therefore fluctuated with the value of silver. The value of silver varied from place to place, and also varied over time. Supply and demand moved independently - silver supply could be increased by the discovery of new supplies and the opening of new mines and reduced by the closing of exhausted mines, and this would have an impact in the region where the mines were located before its effects spread further. Demand for silver was dominated by China, whose currency was silver and whose population doubled, and whose output more than doubled, over the course of the eighteenth century, resulting in a higher and higher demand for silver, tending to push the price up over the course of the century. All of which is a roundabout way of saying that the piece of eight didn’t have a fixed value; the value fluctuated considerably, both from place to place and from time to time. Its attraction was not that it had a steady value, but that it was widely trusted and accepted. ---
**Author:** ![kk\_fusion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kk_fusion/32/15276_2.png) [@kk\_fusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kk_fusion)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/3 "2023-06-23T08:38:16Z")
> **[What could you buy with spanish reales coins during the last half of 18th...](https://en.numista.com/forum/topic87307.html)** > > Coin, banknote and exonumia catalogue, online collection management, swaps, forum, and more. It is difficult to extract good information from the provided cite, but if you believe the people who took the effort, an 8-reales in the late 1700s would be worth roughly 90 EUR or 100 USD in today’s purchasing power. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/4 "2023-06-23T12:31:20Z")
Valuing silver against gold, the ratio has been tricky for a very long time. It’s interesting to note the Comstock lode discovery in Nevada (basically an entire mountain of high grade silver ore) permanently buggered the historical 16 to 1 gold/silver ratio. Lots of thought went into the ratio, valuing too high or too low meant shortages of one kind of specie or another, arbitrage opportunities and other problems. “Pieces of Eight” - the name alone indicates they were pretty valuable in terms of purchasing power because small subsidiary coinage was always in short supply, so merchants resorted to cutting them into pieces to make change. This is the etymology of archaic monetary slang like “Two bits” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/5 "2023-06-23T13:31:02Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > This is the etymology of archaic monetary slang like “Two bits” Which is two eighths of a Spanish dollar. Or one quarter. So the literalist answer to “what is a piece of eight worth” is “12.5 cents.” But 12.5 cents had a fair bit of buying power when these things were in circulation, and the bullion value may have been higher, given the right value ratio between gold and silver. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/6 "2023-06-23T14:38:20Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Was it a day’s wages? A month? An hour? [This cite](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234762118.pdf) gives day labourer rates for around the 1750s in Mexico City as pegged at 3 _reales_/ day. So just under three day’s wages for the meanest kind of paid labour. > From 1750 to 1812 laborer nominal wages were pegged at three reales per day … > It was only in 1813 when nominal wages began to increase reaching four reales by > 1817 Probably more like a _peso_ a day for anyone skilled. Note that despite what some may be thinking, Mexico City wasn’t some backwater during this period, at least at the start (1750) so using its wages isn’t far off the mark.: > Mexico City started out with high real wages, almost at par with Amsterdam and London\* The article also gives another way of looking at value: contruction workers who were fed on-site during the workweek had 1 _real_/week deducted from their wage: > One real (one eighth of a peso) roughly represented the weekly costs of food for one person in the colonial period ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/7 "2023-06-23T19:29:52Z")
Note that the old US silver dollar was of course more or less worth a Piece of Eight. So that might give you a better idea- during the old West a “dollar a day plus found” was pretty standard wages. However, the “found” included three meals and a bunk. And worth around $23 today for the silver. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/8 "2023-06-23T21:42:39Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > So the literalist answer to “what is a piece of eight worth” is “12.5 cents.” No. A piece of eight refers to the whole Spanish dollar made of 8 reals (pieces). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/9 "2023-06-23T23:33:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note that the old US silver dollar was of course more or less worth a Piece of Eight. So that might give you a better idea- during the old West a “dollar a day plus found” was pretty standard wages. A cow hide was called a California dollar in 1850. $100 in 2023 money sounds about right for an untanned hide. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/10 "2023-06-24T00:17:10Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Pieces of Eight” … merchants resorted to cutting them into pieces to make change. This is the etymology of archaic monetary slang like “Two bits” According to the much missed SamClem, who was both a professional numismatist and talented amateur etymologist, [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-bits-1-coin-or-2/489988/18) [is](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-saloons-how-did-you-pay/432318/19) [an](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-for-monetary-denominations-and-their-origins/153499/21) [urban](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coin-nicknames/43295/13) [legend](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-british-money-to-a-yank/20019/26). ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/11 "2023-06-24T01:35:55Z")
Well - the “two bits” = a quarter or 25c part is correct anyway. The US stock market didn’t get rid of this 1/8ths business for equity pricing till 1997! I’d forgotten that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/12 "2023-06-24T02:03:46Z")
One more than a Piece Of Seven? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/13 "2023-06-24T02:21:38Z")
I don’t know. But I actually have one (the whole coin, well except for the small hole drilled in it). ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/14 "2023-06-24T03:43:05Z")
I can probably get away with this now. Q. What goes “pieces of seven, pieces of seven”? A. A parroty error. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/15 "2023-06-24T07:46:54Z")
Woof. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/16 "2023-06-24T20:00:04Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > According to the much missed SamClem, who was both a professional numismatist and talented amateur etymologist, [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-bits-1-coin-or-2/489988/18) [is](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-west-saloons-how-did-you-pay/432318/19) [an](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nicknames-for-monetary-denominations-and-their-origins/153499/21) [urban](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coin-nicknames/43295/13) [legend](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/please-explain-british-money-to-a-yank/20019/26). Well, sure they maybe dont show up much in collections, but it was really done: [https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/#:~:text=Cutting%20money%20was%20not%20illegal,a%20quarter%20of%20a%20dollar](https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/#:~:text=Cutting%20money%20was%20not%20illegal,a%20quarter%20of%20a%20dollar). _n fact, it was expected that, to make change, they literally cut the coins into 8 pieces or “bits.” Hence, the British called the Spanish dollar a “Piece of Eight,” and when they said something cost “two bits,” they meant it cost a quarter of a dollar._ > **[Pieces Of Eight | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/united-states-and-canada/us-history/pieces-eight)** > > PIECES OF EIGHTPIECES OF EIGHT, Spanish silver coins of eight reals (eight bits), first authorized in 1497. And Sam did say they did it on one island. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/17 "2023-06-24T21:35:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, sure they maybe dont show up much in collections, but it was really done: > [https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/#:~:text=Cutting%20money%20was%20not%20illegal,a%20quarter%20of%20a%20dollar](https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/#:~:text=Cutting%20money%20was%20not%20illegal,a%20quarter%20of%20a%20dollar). Yeah, you can easily find a thousand web sites repeating the legend. It doesn’t make it accurate. Sam was a coin dealer, and expert. Is this site written by a coin expert? If not, I take Sam’s word over theirs > [@DrDeth](#): > > And Sam did say they did it on one island. But very rarely, and not with pieces of eight. Please note - a ‘bit’ was an actual coin worth 1 real. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2023, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/18 "2023-06-25T11:50:07Z")
Yeah, the more I think about it, ole Sam was likely correct. If they were widely cut up, there would be a healthy supply of the bits remaining in collections, found in hoards, detectorists, museum collections. Some attrition over the years would be expected, would have been lost due to smelting, but it’s a matter of percentages. If the practice was so widespread, where are they? I’m going to ask our local coin guy about this, he’s been around forever and likely heard this tale before. ---
**Author:** ![King-Monke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@King-Monke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King-Monke)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/19 "2024-10-05T16:10:29Z")
What actually makes a Piece of Eight ‘real’? Can’t I just go and make a Piece of Eight and says its real? No one could tell the difference ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978/20 "2024-10-05T16:31:41Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > A cow hide was called a California dollar in 1850. I’ve heard that at one time, a tanned deerhide was worth about a dollar, and that’s the origin of “buck”. > [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > I can probably get away with this now. > > Q. What goes “pieces of seven, pieces of seven”? > A. A parroty error. More precisely, a one-bit parroty error. > [@King-Monke](#): > > What actually makes a Piece of Eight ‘real’? The fact that it’s issued by a monarch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-a-piece-of-eight/985978.md?page=2)