# Value of oberstein red skelton paintings **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 27, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042 "2016-07-27T17:37:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alonzo_John_Blitz)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/1 "2016-07-27T17:37:40Z")
I am owed about $24,000 by someone who has 9 of the 52 original paintings by Chuck Oberstein of Red Skelton as a clown. He has offered them in payment. I searched online, but could not find a definitive valuation. So, I am asking - do any of you have an idea of what they may be worth, and how easy/difficult it would be to sell them. Cites would be welcome. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/2 "2016-07-27T17:47:33Z")
I would research celebrity auction sites and call them. Or I would search eBay for possible comps. Beyond that, I got nuthin’ - celebrity collectibles run hot and cold; if you find the right Skelton or TV History fan, they could be worth something. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/3 "2016-07-27T17:59:32Z")
I can’t find anything at all about Chuck Oberstein paintings of Red Skelton. Are there any links about these? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/4 "2016-07-27T18:17:24Z")
Hmm, valuing art is shaky, even when it’s one of the greats. A quick search shows that he’s famous enough to have a Wikipedia page that hasn’t been deleted, and he’s know for his paintings of clowns. There’s an ebay auction that went for $500, but there’s also claims that his paintings often go for $2-$8K. As far as clown paintings go, he’s probably the pinnacle of them. If your other option would be nothing, I’d take it. Otherwise, $24K seems to be a steep valuation. ETA: Oh wait, you have 9. That makes it a little easier to think it might be worth $24K. Where’s the nearest large art auction house? I’d be willing to pay a couple of hundred to get their professional opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/5 "2016-07-27T18:37:48Z")
I have found a lot about his clown paintings, which vary greatly in price. What I can’t find specifically is any mention of him painting Red Skelton as a clown, let alone there being a set of 52 different paintings. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/6 "2016-07-27T20:42:07Z")
Found some [Ebay listings](http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=CHUCK+OBERSTEIN+ORIGINAL+OIL+PAINTING+OF+FREDDIE+THE+FREELOADER) that imply $500-$700. Not all are Olberstein. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/7 "2016-07-27T20:47:46Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Found some [Ebay listings](http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=CHUCK+OBERSTEIN+ORIGINAL+OIL+PAINTING+OF+FREDDIE+THE+FREELOADER) that imply $500-$700. Not all are Olberstein. None of them are paintings of Skelton by Olberstein, though. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/8 "2016-07-27T20:48:53Z")
Not to put a damper on the valuation party, but if the person that owes you this money thinks they are worth this much, why not make them the person that has to sell them? Then you don’t have to worry about what the paintings are worth, you just get your cash. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/9 "2016-07-27T20:50:44Z")
I am finding no indication that Olberstein ever painted anything but generic clowns when he did paint them. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/10 "2016-07-27T21:48:51Z")
If accurate provenance, 52 sounds like it could be for a deck of playing cards, no? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/11 "2016-07-28T15:55:01Z")
Olberstein portraits of named individuals(as opposed to generic clowns or scenes) are very rare and valuable, and I can’t find any record of him painting sets, large or small, of any individual. When were these supposedly painted? Do you have any info on them at all? ---
**Author:** ![Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waltzes_with_Cacti)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/12 "2016-07-28T16:33:47Z")
Skelton painted clown portraits. As far as I can tell he sometimes did self-portraits but didn’t pose in clown makeup for other artists. [www.redskelton-gallery.com/resale/catalog/index.php?cPath=22\_26](http://www.redskelton-gallery.com/resale/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_26) So most likely, OP: 1. Your debtor has clown pictures painted by and signed by Skelton, which may have value (see the website); or 2. The debtor has pictures painted by Oberstein that depict clowns but not Skelton; or 3. The debtor has paintings of Skelton dressed as a clown that Oberstein copied from magazines, Skelton’s TV show, or from Skelton’s own paintings. These knock-offs are probably unsanctioned by Skelton’s estate, which could take copyright action against anyone who tried to sell them. If the case is 1) above, you may see a small return, but nowhere near what your debtor owes you. If it’s 2), the paintings are nearly worthless. If it’s 3), they are not merely worthless, they’re a liability. ---
**Author:** ![Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alonzo_John_Blitz)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/13 "2016-07-28T17:06:25Z")
Thanks all. I’m still digging in to it - like others here have said - can’t find any record that Oberstein painted Red as a clown. My debtor is a friend and I trust him (original debt was much higher and he has been assiduous in paying back), perhaps he relied on bad info when he bought. As to why he doesn’t sell them himself; he’s not too computer literate, wouldn’t know how to find appropriate auctions, and can’t navigate eBay. Thanks again, please let me know if you come across any more pertinent info. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/14 "2016-07-28T17:18:01Z")
> [@Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](#): > > Thanks all. I’m still digging in to it - like others here have said - can’t find any record that Oberstein painted Red as a clown. > > My debtor is a friend and I trust him (original debt was much higher and he has been assiduous in paying back), perhaps he relied on bad info when he bought. > > As to why he doesn’t sell them himself; he’s not too computer literate, wouldn’t know how to find appropriate auctions, and can’t navigate eBay. > > Thanks again, please let me know if you come across any more pertinent info. Can you post a link to a picture of just one of the paintings(front and back)? What does the back of one of the paintings say? ---
**Author:** ![Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Alonzo\_John\_Blitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alonzo_John_Blitz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/15 "2016-07-30T18:38:39Z")
I’m not too local to friend. If I can get over there I’ll take pix. Thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/value-of-oberstein-red-skelton-paintings/761042/16 "2016-07-30T22:07:53Z")
> [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](#): > > Skelton painted clown portraits. As far as I can tell he sometimes did self-portraits but didn’t pose in clown makeup for other artists. > [Prints on Canvas, The Fine Art of Red Skelton](http://www.redskelton-gallery.com/resale/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_26) > > So most likely, OP: > > 1. Your debtor has clown pictures painted by and signed by Skelton, which may have value (see the website); or > > 2. The debtor has pictures painted by Oberstein that depict clowns but not Skelton; or > > 3. The debtor has paintings of Skelton dressed as a clown that Oberstein copied from magazines, Skelton’s TV show, or from Skelton’s own paintings. These knock-offs are probably unsanctioned by Skelton’s estate, which could take copyright action against anyone who tried to sell them. > > If the case is 1) above, you may see a small return, but nowhere near what your debtor owes you. If it’s 2), the paintings are nearly worthless. If it’s 3), they are not merely > worthless, they’re a liability. As a retired fine art appraiser of 20 years experience, I can tell you the above is sound advice. I was one of two appraisers who valued the Skelton Estate’s donation of thousands of items to a museum in Skelton’s hometown of Vincennes, Indiana, and the values were nothing significant then (and have since depreciated). There were no Oberstein portraits, though, in the donation.