# Vampirism - origins **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070 "2010-01-07T21:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/1 "2010-01-07T21:06:08Z")
Apologies if this has been dealt with before: It’s fairly well-known vampire-lore that vampirism is contagious; that is, if you get yourself bit by one, you become one yourself. Any stories about how the first vampire became so afflicted? ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/2 "2010-01-07T21:35:55Z")
He bit his own tongue? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/3 "2010-01-07T21:38:51Z")
There are all sorts of different legends about how somebody becomes a vampire, and the “you become a vampire if another bites you” is just one of those legends. You could become a vampire if: You’re descended from Cain from the bible You’re a suicide An animal jumps over your corpse You’re buried in nonconsecrated ground You’ve blasphemed against God You die from an open wound You’re a wizard You’re not baptized You eat from a sheep killed by a wolf You’re a stillborn child You’re the illegitimate son of an illegitimate son The shadow of a living man falls over your corpse You were cursed You were born with a caul You’re a perjurer ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/4 "2010-01-07T21:41:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Any stories about how the first vampire became so afflicted? Various, depending on the author(s). In the old World of Darkness Cain the first murderer was the first vampire, I understand. Fred Saberhagen’s vampires not only spread by bite, but normal humans can become one by effort of will; a transcendent refusal to die. Presumably the first vampire was some such person. In Marvel comics, the first vampires were created by ancient Atlantean sorcerers using the Darkhold as magical super-soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/5 "2010-01-07T21:45:21Z")
As always, \*Buffy \*has the answer: Giles: This world is older than any of you know. Contrary to popular mythology, it did not begin as a paradise. For untold eons demons walked the Earth. They made it their home, their… their Hell. But in time they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal animals, for, for man. All that remains of the old ones are vestiges, certain magicks, certain creatures. The books tell the last demon to leave this reality fed off a human, mixed their blood. He was a human form possessed, infected by the demon’s soul. He bit another, and another, and so they walk the Earth, feeding… Killing some, mixing their blood with others to make more of their kind. Waiting for the animals to die out, and the old ones to return. ---
**Author:** ![Petey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f1d935/32.png) [@Petey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petey)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/6 "2010-01-07T21:58:26Z")
Anne Rice’s _The Vampire Lestat_ has a section about the first vampires. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/7 "2010-01-07T22:04:39Z")
And it involves a demon as well. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/8 "2010-01-07T22:08:44Z")
**Captain Amazing** gives most of the “traditional” ways to become a vampire, but I want to add just one more: In Bram Stoker’s novel, Dracula didn’t become a vampire by being bitten by another vampire, or by any of the methods CA gives. Nor does he becomes condemned for cursing God for the death of his wife, as in the Francis Ford Coppola movie. in the book, he was one of a set of proto-wizards who attended the “Devil’s School” of black arts, it’s said. The price of admission was to take the chance of being condemned for it – one member of the class would become a vampire. Dracula drew the short straw, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/9 "2010-01-07T23:07:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There are all sorts of different legends about how somebody becomes a vampire, and the “you become a vampire if another bites you” is just one of those legends. You could become a vampire if: > > You’re descended from Cain from the bible > You’re a suicide > An animal jumps over your corpse > You’re buried in nonconsecrated ground > You’ve blasphemed against God > You die from an open wound > You’re a wizard > You’re not baptized > You eat from a sheep killed by a wolf > You’re a stillborn child > You’re the illegitimate son of an illegitimate son > The shadow of a living man falls over your corpse > You were cursed > You were born with a caul > You’re a perjurer **Captain Amazing** ’s list covers most of the folklore causes of vampirism that I’ve heard of. The only other one I remember ever reading about is that in one region (somewhere in Eastern Europe?) blue-eyed redheads were considered likely to become vampires. The Greek island of Santorini was also said to be home to many vampires, perhaps because IRL decomposition of buried corpses is somewhat slower than usual due to the local soil composition. I’m not sure if it was traditionally believed that people from Santorini were particularly susceptible to vampirism, though. In folklore and early vampire literature vampirism is not commonly described as contagious, it’s usually due to the circumstances of a person’s birth, death, or burial, or because they did something wicked or sinful in life. The victims of vampires usually just died rather than becoming vampires themselves. Folk stories about werewolves are pretty similar. Traditionally, werewolves were either born that way or became werewolves through the use of dark magic or a pact with the Devil. The idea that werewolfism is contagious is a recent one (I don’t think it predates the mid 20th century) and was apparently borrowed from vampire stories. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > In Bram Stoker’s novel, Dracula didn’t become a vampire by being bitten by another vampire, or by any of the methods CA gives. Nor does he becomes condemned for cursing God for the death of his wife, as in the Francis Ford Coppola movie. > > in the book, he was one of a set of proto-wizards who attended the “Devil’s School” of black arts, it’s said. The price of admission was to take the chance of being condemned for it – one member of the class would become a vampire. Dracula drew the short straw, so to speak. I didn’t remember Stoker being as specific as this about how Dracula became a vampire, but you’re correct. Here’s Van Helsing, as recorded in Mina Harker’s journal entry for September 30: > [@](#): > > The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings with the Evil One. They learned his secrets in the Scholomance, amongst the mountains over Lake Hermanstadt, where the devil claims the tenth scholar as his due. In the records are such words as ‘stregoica’ witch, ‘ordog’ and ‘pokol’ Satan and hell, and in one manuscript this very Dracula is spoken of as ‘wampyr,’ which we all understand too well. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/10 "2010-01-07T23:17:51Z")
To add to the list; being born on Christmas is supposed to be another way to become a vampire, though in some regions a Christmas birth will result in a werewolf instead. ---
**Author:** ![De\_La\_Rue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@De\_La\_Rue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/De_La_Rue)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/11 "2010-01-08T03:19:11Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > To add to the list; being born on Christmas is supposed to be another way to become a vampire, though in some regions a Christmas birth will result in a werewolf instead. Humphrey Bogart was a vampire? ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/12 "2010-01-08T04:04:50Z")
> [@De\_La\_Rue](#): > > Humphrey Bogart was a vampire? Or a werewolf. It could have been either one. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/13 "2010-01-08T04:10:39Z")
Just to contribute a little bit… That excerpt from Dracula is fascinating to me. I’ve never read Stoker’s original novel and had no idea that he played with the idea of sorcery and damnation, (however perfunctorily). It looks like something that could have come from an Anne Rice novel or a WoD book. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/14 "2010-01-08T07:43:03Z")
My favorite vampire origin story is from an under-appreciated movie called _Dracula 2000_. In it, the very first vampire turned out to be… Judas Iscariot, who became a vampire as a result of his betrayal of Christ. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/15 "2010-01-08T09:08:38Z")
> [@Petey](#): > > Anne Rice’s _The Vampire Lestat_ has a section about the first vampires. > [@Snickers](#): > > And it involves a demon as well. I’d say more of a Small God, in the Pratchett sense. I also have read of Longinus, the Wandering Jew and Lilith as the first vampire. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/16 "2010-01-08T09:23:31Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > My favorite vampire origin story is from an under-appreciated movie called _Dracula 2000_. In it, the very first vampire turned out to be… > > Judas Iscariot, who became a vampire as a result of his betrayal of Christ. I hated that origin, but anyway, I think they retconned that in the direct to video sequels. That was just another guise he took on. He changes form every time he dies and comes back, guess he’s a timelord or something. His final regeneration? Rutger Hauer, who’s played a vampire enough times that people might start wondering if he isn’t one himself. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/17 "2010-01-08T10:16:07Z")
Isn’t there a legend linking vampirism with Lilith, who was supposedly Adam’s first wife? Or is that an invention of Marvel comics too? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/18 "2010-01-08T10:23:22Z")
> [@De\_La\_Rue](#): > > Humphrey Bogart was a vampire? Forget Bogart - _Jesus_ was a vampire! Though that would explain the resurrection, and how he got all those followers so quickly… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/19 "2010-01-08T12:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Humphrey Bogart was a vampire? The surprising answer is, _Yes, in fact_. Check out the old movie **The Return of Dr. X** , in which Bogey does, in fact, play a vampire. He _hated_ the role, which he felt more appropriate for Bela Lugosi or Boris Karloff, but the studio said to do it, and they owned him. [http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0031851/](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0031851/) [http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view\_item.php?Sale\_No=7014&Lot\_No=85022](http://movieposters.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=7014&Lot_No=85022) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070/20 "2010-01-08T13:04:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Isn’t there a legend linking vampirism with Lilith, who was supposedly Adam’s first wife? Or is that an invention of Marvel comics too? Not a legend linking her to vampires – lots of enthusiastic vampire-loving geeks, looking for the old roots of the vampire legend, seized upon her reputation for drinking blood and decided that she was an early vampire. In fact, there’s nothing _exactly_ like the vampire in the ancient world, although there are plenty of blood-drinking monsters and Undead Things. Richard Burton titled one of his translations of Indian horror **Vikram and the Vampyre** , but the titular vampuire is a traditional Indian demon that’s not exactly like the modern conception. In fact, as I’ve frequently pointed out, out modern conception of the vampire is largely a 19th century literary creation. Vampires certainly existed earlier, but in East European folklore they were poor, dirty, shambling creatures who people knew were dead and werre generally peasants. Their activity was usually implied rather than seen, and they were often perceived in the body only when they were dug up and dispatched by fire, stake, or other means. It was in literature that we first had the Vampire who came from somewhere else and could pass for human (since no one knew they were dead), and it’s from literature\* that we got the aristocratic, titled vampire \*Polidori’s _The Vampyre_ and a few earlier cases. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vampirism-origins/524070.md?page=2)