# Van Gogh stolen. Why? What can you do with it? \[Update - The painting has been recovered\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672 "2020-03-30T15:36:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/1 "2020-03-30T15:36:08Z")
Hello, A Van Gogh waa stolen overnight from a museum in Amsterdam. I understand a painting by a Master is worth 10s, to 100s of millions, but what can you do with it? You can’t fence it like a TV, every law enforcement agency is one the look out. So, the only scenario I can imagine is a wealthy private collector paid some thieves to steal it to put in his private collection. But who can you show it to? People know you have a new Van Gogh and that’s going to be impossible to keep quiet. So, I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/2 "2020-03-30T16:36:04Z")
From [this site](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781119204688.ch12): > [@](#): > > No one knows the precise commercial value of underground market; however, some people estimate that the illicit art market may be running in excess of $6 billion per year. This complex black market has many layers and other than the gray market it includes the trade in stolen goods, the illegal import and export of art, and the market for fakes and forgeries. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/3 "2020-03-30T16:37:56Z")
You can also hold it for ransom, or as a bargaining chip. But it does appear that going into private collections is a real option. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/4 "2020-03-30T17:05:23Z")
And how long can the private collector keep it quiet? It’s going to be found out eventually, if not next year, then next decade or next century. Does the illegal purchaser simply accept the risk and hope he outlives it? When happens when it is discovered, even if next century? Surely this sort of thing has actually happened. Does the ultimate “owner” just shrug his shoulders, and say, “I dunno. I inherited it from my father. No idea how he got it.”, and then return it for free to the rightful heirs? ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/5 "2020-03-30T17:10:18Z")
For the record, most valuable artworks are stored in art warehouses near ports so that the rich private collectors don’t have to pay import duties. They are just an investment and most public eyes will never see them. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/6 "2020-03-30T17:12:12Z")
Minor quibble - it was stolen in Laren, about 20 miles southeast of Amsterdam. As for ransom, is the insurance company the most likely to pay. A few million to avoid a larger claim would be a bargain. Details would be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/7 "2020-03-30T17:18:30Z")
Apparently they are also used as collateral among underworld types. > **[Gangsters' use of paintings as currency shows a profound belief in art](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2016/sep/30/gangsters-use-of-paintings-as-currency-shows-profound-belief-in-art)** > > How many bags of cocaine for a Van Gogh? This is the sense in which the mafia reveres priceless works > [@](#): > > Gangland uses paintings as collateral or currency in the drug deals that are its main business. This was the motivation attributed to Norwegian criminals who stole The Scream from the Munch museum in 2004, and appears to be the likelihood in the Van Gogh case, given the paintings have been recovered in a drugs investigation. (Note this is an earlier article referring to a different Van Gogh) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/8 "2020-03-30T17:38:01Z")
Or you find it in the garbage on the curb in New York… > **[Tres Personajes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tres_Personajes)** > > Tres Personajes 'Pendejos', second version (English: "Three Characters") was painted by Mexican Modernist artist Rufino Tamayo in 1970. The brightly colored 51" by 38" (130 cm x 97 cm) painting is considered to be significant as an example of Tamayo's mature style. It is an abstract depiction of a man, a woman and an androgynous figure in a rich palette of purple, orange and yellow, with Tamayo's signature rough surface texture, made of sand and ground marble dust mixed into the paint. Th Tres ... ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/9 "2020-03-30T17:58:44Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Minor quibble - it was stolen in Laren, about 20 miles southeast of Amsterdam. > > As for ransom, is the insurance company the most likely to pay. A few million to avoid a larger claim would be a bargain. Details would be tricky. Pay the Danegeld and never get rid of the Dane. I’d expect an insurance company wouldn’t want to be known as paying ransoms unless ransom insurance had specifically been bought. But maybe I’m wrong about that. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Apparently they are also used as collateral among underworld types. > > [Gangsters' use of paintings as currency shows a profound belief in art | Vincent van Gogh | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2016/sep/30/gangsters-use-of-paintings-as-currency-shows-profound-belief-in-art) > > (Note this is an earlier article referring to a different Van Gogh) Doesn’t that kick the can down the road? If I give you a painting as collateral and don’t pay up, you have the painting but you can’t cash it in. The point of collateral is being able to liquidate it if you don’t get payment. I think OP’s hypothesis is the most probable one. Some ultra-rich type who will go to ridiculous lengths to feel special/superior to other ultra-rich types, periodically going to his vault to admire his Preciousss. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/10 "2020-03-30T20:19:45Z")
You need to have a few folks like that, but once you have a few, then others will value it because they can (potentially) sell it to those unethical rich collectors. They don’t even need to actually sell it to them, because they can sell it to other criminals, who will value it for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/11 "2020-03-30T20:26:30Z")
When is the last time you or anyone you knew was in the Saudi royal families home where their women let their hair down? Or in Putin’s private residence? Or a drug lords hideaway? Who in their right mind would tell? First they would call you a liar trying to get attention, then you would receive a message that you would soon disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/12 "2020-03-30T22:16:40Z")
The delightful Audrey Hepburn-Peter O’Toole movie “How To Steal A Million” has some pretty good simplified insights into what can happen to a stolen priceless objet d’art. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/13 "2020-03-31T01:26:44Z")
I always imagine some Blofeld kind of guy when something like this happens, hanging the painting somewhere in the control room of his secret lair. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/14 "2020-03-31T01:48:29Z")
Coincidentally, this happened the night before the anniversary of van Gogh’s birth. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/15 "2020-03-31T02:06:38Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I always imagine some Blofeld kind of guy when something like this happens, hanging the painting somewhere in the control room of his secret lair. You realize that exact gag was used in _Dr. No_? ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/16 "2020-03-31T02:13:49Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > When is the last time you or anyone you knew was in the Saudi royal families home where their women let their hair down? Or in Putin’s private residence? Or a drug lords hideaway? Who in their right mind would tell? First they would call you a liar trying to get attention, then you would receive a message that you would soon disappear. I’m thinking an anonymous tip from a disgruntled maid or such wanting to collect a multi million dollar reward. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/17 "2020-03-31T02:19:33Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > When is the last time you or anyone you knew was in the Saudi royal families home where their women let their hair down? Or in Putin’s private residence? Or a drug lords hideaway? Who in their right mind would tell? First they would call you a liar trying to get attention, then you would receive a message that you would soon disappear. But then what is the value of having it if you can’t tell the world you have it? That’s the only reason I can think of to want this sort of thing. Rich people get fancy art to show off how rich they are. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/18 "2020-03-31T02:21:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You realize that exact gag was used in _Dr. No_? No really, I honestly didn’t know that :smack:. I only ever skim old Bond movies and watch them with sound turned off when they run on the TV… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/19 "2020-03-31T02:40:39Z")
Plenty of Arab Sheiks and Russian Oligarchs out there to maintain a huge black market. To say nothing of corrupt rulers in places like Venezuela, China, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672/20 "2020-03-31T03:42:04Z")
I would suppose that like most stolen goods, it has to be sold for pennies on the dollar. Steal a million dollar painting and you would be lucky to get a hundred thousand dollars for it. (A dime on the dollar.) That seems like such an inefficient thing to do. But consider the buyer is also stuck with it. He or his estate would have a hell of a time unloading it. Would the buyer’s family also want to keep the silly thing in a private room for another few decades? The would also have a hard time selling it on. I suppose the thieves make their money. After that the idea of art as an investment seems to fail. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-gogh-stolen-why-what-can-you-do-with-it-update-the-painting-has-been-recovered/850672.md?page=2)