# Van hits pedestrians at London Bridge **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 3, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040 "2017-06-03T21:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/41 "2017-06-04T07:52:01Z")
8 mins from first report of an incident to the 3 being shot dead. Paramedics arrived a little sooner. I wouldn’t wipe my arse on the New York Times. My educated guess is these 3 lived in east London. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/42 "2017-06-04T08:11:08Z")
Impeccable response from the Police ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/43 "2017-06-04T08:41:36Z")
[The BBC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916) are labelling it a terrorist incident. > [@](#): > > Six people have been killed and at least 48 injured in a terror incident in London in which three male attackers were shot dead by police. > A white van hit pedestrians on London Bridge at about 22:00 BST on Saturday, then three men got out and stabbed people in nearby Borough Market. > > Police said the three men were wearing fake bomb vests. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/44 "2017-06-04T08:50:07Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Impeccable response from the Police Ok, the hagiography can go too far. Police missed the attack and failed to stop it. Lessons need to be learned and such fawning won’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/45 "2017-06-04T08:57:37Z")
Just seen this in the Guardian: > [@](#): > > [Cressida] Dick [Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police] paid tribute to the police, emergency services and members of the public who came to the aid of the injured – and confronted the attackers. > > She said: > > In the early hours of this morning I visited one of the hospitals in London. There, I heard truly remarkable stories and extraordinarily brave actions by officers on and off duty first on the scene. I heard of colleagues of other emergency services and members of the public who ran towards the danger as the incident unfolded. > > Many, many people risked their own safety to help others and treat those seriously injured and indeed to confront suspects involved. The courage of those people during and following the attack was extraordinary and I pay tribute to all of them … I’m sure they helped to save lives. Inserts mine. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/46 "2017-06-04T09:01:44Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > The point is that London’s mayor, casually/cruelly dismissed the concerns of Americans about Islamo-terrorism, after a bombing in NYC in September of last year, with the quote I cited in my post. The larger point I was trying to make with that quote is, if London’s elected officials seemingly don’t give a shit about terrorism; that, to repeat myself, [terrorist attacks are] part and parcel of living in a major Western city these days, then I don’t understand why Londoners should expect the rest of the world to care when they happen there. This obviously comes from someone who has never dug deeper than a second-hand superficial paraphrasing, shorn of context, of a reasonable summary of the London (and British) mood. London particularly has been no stranger to bombs and terrorism over the lifetime of most of us. I have absolutely no doubt that Londoners in general would be behind Mayor Khan. A reign of fire from the Luftwaffe, bombing from Irish republicans, Islamist terrorist nutters…even though he didn’t express it as flippantly as you suggest they are all the price we pay for a free society and life within a major city (and hence a major target). Doesn’t mean we don’t put our efforts into preventing them in the first place, we did before and we will again. Though diluted from overuse, there is a reason why the meme “[Keep calm and carry on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On)” finds traction in troubled times. > [@](#): > > And please: if Trump had said something so brain dead as that quote from Mayor Khan, this board would be talking about it for years as further evidence of his cruelty, idiocy, and overall unfitness to rule. No, if the exact same statement had issued from Trump’s mouth I’d be perfectly happy. I’d also be amazed as he seems incapable of stringing together a cogent and nuanced thought. > [@](#): > > You guys—by which I mean the EU, and U.K. too—have a problem. (So does the U.S., FWIW, but a much smaller one.) The U.K. has a sizable minority, a very small portion of which commits horrific acts using religion as an excuse. This small portion journeys to foreign lands to learn how to commit these acts more effectively, incurring observation by different Western security services, Sadly a very small percentage of a large number is still a large enough number to cause harm. When they are then also spread widely throughout all countries in the world we have situation that is incredibly difficult to police. > [@](#): > > which nonetheless seem incapable of stopping these idiots before they blow themselves up or run down a crowd of innocent people. How many times have we read that these guys “were under the eye of law enforcement?” Yet these attacks still happen. Just in the UK alone there are thousands of people under the eye of law enforcement as potential terrorists. No-one in their right mind can ever guarantee that all of them will be stopped before they act. Of course, what is less reported is how many plots actually do get foiled. There were at least 5 in the period between the Westminster attacks and the Manchester bombing. > [@](#): > > A larger portion of this minority, while not willing to commit these acts, still will support the fiends that do, with money, and shelter. And a still larger portion are willing to turn a blind eye when they see the above occurring. Go read Pew’s polling on the acceptability within the Muslim community of suicide bombing. This is sadly true but it will ultimately be the moderate majority in these communities who starve the terrorists and radicals of cover and support, best then to consider policies that get them onside and keep them there. Cultural change takes time. > [@](#): > > I don’t think that living with terror attacks should be part of living in a Western society and I resent the hell out of a mindset that thinks there’s no alternative to it. Tough, it is part of western life whether you think it should be so or not. There will always be a subset of radical ideologues who hate what we do, how we live and want to destroy us. As someone else has suggested, This is a free society that pretty much guarantees an opportunity for terrorist attacks. Now there is a potential alternative to that but it is a solution and a mindset that frightens me far, far more than the risk of an occasional bomb or ramming attack ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/47 "2017-06-04T09:06:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ok, the hagiography can go too far. Police missed the attack and failed to stop it. Lessons need to be learned and such fawning won’t help. How do you know it was missed? By your logic here any crime that occurs is a failure on part of the police. It seems to me that eight minutes from first call to dead terrorists is a speedy response. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/48 "2017-06-04T11:04:52Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > The point is that London’s mayor, casually/cruelly dismissed the concerns of Americans about Islamo-terrorism, after a bombing in NYC in September of last year, with the quote I cited in my post. The larger point I was trying to make with that quote is, if London’s elected officials seemingly don’t give a shit about terrorism; that, to repeat myself, [terrorist attacks are] part and parcel of living in a major Western city these days, then I don’t understand why Londoners should expect the rest of the world to care when they happen there. > > And please: if Trump had said something so brain dead as that quote from Mayor Khan, this board would be talking about it for years as further evidence of his cruelty, idiocy, and overall unfitness to rule. Not excusing it as part of a “fascistic reporting style.” “Fascistic?” The Daily Mail? The Sun, maybe, but the Mail? Words fail me. You do know that “fascistic” isn’t a synonym for something that displeases you? > > You guys—by which I mean the EU, and U.K. too—have a problem. (So does the U.S., FWIW, but a much smaller one.) The U.K. has a sizable minority, a very small portion of which commits horrific acts using religion as an excuse. This small portion journeys to foreign lands to learn how to commit these acts more effectively, incurring observation by different Western security services, which nonetheless seem incapable of stopping these idiots before they blow themselves up or run down a crowd of innocent people. How many times have we read that these guys “were under the eye of law enforcement?” Yet these attacks still happen. A larger portion of this minority, while not willing to commit these acts, still will support the fiends that do, with money, and shelter. And a still larger portion are willing to turn a blind eye when they see the above occurring. Go read Pew’s polling on the acceptability within the Muslim community of suicide bombing. > > I don’t think that living with terror attacks should be part of living in a Western society and I resent the hell out of a mindset that thinks there’s no alternative to it. Perhap the bigger problem is US companies like YouTube and Facebook providing impressionable kids with a ‘safe space’ to explore extremism and ultimately facilitating terrorism while making enormous profits. That will now end. It is not acceptable. And, meanwhile, [the USA carries on as normal](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/28/eight-dead-suspect-custody-mississippi-shooting) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/49 "2017-06-04T12:04:57Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Perhap the bigger problem is US companies like YouTube and Facebook providing impressionable kids with a ‘safe space’ to explore extremism and ultimately facilitating terrorism while making enormous profits. > > That will now end. It is not acceptable. Yeah, lets drive the chat about terrorism away from easily monitored channels that will comply with Government and police orders to underground, much harder to track venues. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/50 "2017-06-04T15:16:12Z")
Another example of you not being quite in the argument. No one is discussing “chat”. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/51 "2017-06-04T17:15:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ok, the hagiography can go too far. Police missed the attack and failed to stop it. Lessons need to be learned and such fawning won’t help. Just out of curiosity, what lessons would those be, in your opinion. It seems to me that we are still in a police mindset, and that evidence has to be gathered and a warrant issued by judges, before the cops can pull anyone in. The police are a reactionary force and are always going to be behind the eight ball and the op4 is going to be agile enough to pick and choose which targets they want, based on previous police reactions. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/52 "2017-06-04T17:20:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yeah, lets drive the chat about terrorism away from easily monitored channels that will comply with Government and police orders to underground, much harder to track venues. > > What could possibly go wrong? For a start we have the BBC and Hollywood on side, if all the willing audience has is boot leg copies of recordings brought in by sneaker net, its easy enough to pervert the message by seeding recordings using paid actors dressed in mufti, after all, its not like they can’t do the same thing on youtube and I imagine that these kids are taking it on faith that the people they are watching are the genuine article. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/53 "2017-06-04T17:26:37Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > For a start we have the BBC and Hollywood on side, if all the willing audience has is boot leg copies of recordings brought in by sneaker net, its easy enough to pervert the message by seeding recordings using paid actors dressed in mufti, after all, its not like they can’t do the same thing on youtube and I imagine that these kids are taking it on faith that the people they are watching are the genuine article. Holy run on sentence, Batman! I have no idea what you just said or how it relates to my comment. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/54 "2017-06-04T21:29:33Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > For a start we have the BBC and Hollywood on side, if all the willing audience has is boot leg copies of recordings brought in by sneaker net, its easy enough to pervert the message by seeding recordings using paid actors dressed in mufti, after all, its not like they can’t do the same thing on youtube and I imagine that these kids are taking it on faith that the people they are watching are the genuine article. I suppose if we are talking paranoid ‘false flag’ operations, it’'s wise to get things wrapped up in a (suspiciously swift?!) eight minutes. There must be some people on the Internet who believe that the incumbent Tories manufactured this, and Manchester, for pre-election gain. I pity the fools. I find the prospect of being attacked on a Saturday night - while likely quite inebriated by 10pm - especially unsettling. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/55 "2017-06-04T21:42:38Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > How do you know it was missed? By your logic here any crime that occurs is a failure on part of the police. > It seems to me that eight minutes from first call to dead terrorists is a speedy response. Of course it was missed. If police were aware of it, ie if they hadn’t missed it, it would have been stopped before the terrorists could act. Eight minutes is certainly fast but it’s also eight minutes too slow. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/56 "2017-06-04T22:00:10Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Of course it was missed. If police were aware of it, ie if they hadn’t missed it, it would have been stopped before the terrorists could act. Eight minutes is certainly fast but it’s also eight minutes too slow. So there was a clear evidence that this was going to happen and they missed it? How on earth can you know that? Is each armed robbery or rape also a “miss” by the police? if not, why not? And why are you expecting instantaneous action from the police? I hope you realise that “Minority Report” was fiction. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/57 "2017-06-04T22:39:05Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake **Novelty Bobble** , stop being purposely obtuse. An armed robbery is a different type of crime than terrorism. Terrorism requires continuous monitoring of chatter and movements of suspected terrorists. And when there is a gang going around undertaking armed robberies in an area, then absolutely yes the police need to anticipate and obstruct them from their next targets, and the more robberies happen the less anyone will say the Police as an institution has done well, they will rightly be called to task. There is a major threat of terror in the UK. If the police fail to identify and stop potential perps, before they carry out attacks, then the police obviously have failed in their primary task. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/58 "2017-06-04T22:42:48Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > I suppose if we are talking paranoid ‘false flag’ operations, it’'s wise to get things wrapped up in a (suspiciously swift?!) eight minutes. > > There must be some people on the Internet who believe that the incumbent Tories manufactured this, and Manchester, for pre-election gain. I pity the fools. > > I find the prospect of being attacked on a Saturday night - while likely quite inebriated by 10pm - especially unsettling. I don’t know anything about false flag ops by British security folks, that was more in line with Theresa May’s intention to severely limit the internet. How young jihadis get their dose of radicalization without youtube available, would probably similar to how russian kids got the new rock and roll songs coming out of the west, just more updated. Eight minutes can be a lifetime, but I don’t doubt that the met and partners had a rapid reaction force standing by, or several for such occasions. As to your saturday night festivities, that’s probably the point, if you sit at home to be safe, they score a victory. England expects all, have a pint. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/59 "2017-06-04T23:19:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake **Novelty Bobble** , stop being purposely obtuse. An armed robbery is a different type of crime than terrorism. Terrorism requires continuous monitoring of chatter and movements of suspected terrorists. And when there is a gang going around undertaking armed robberies in an area, then absolutely yes the police need to anticipate and obstruct them from their next targets, and the more robberies happen the less anyone will say the Police as an institution has done well, they will rightly be called to task. > > There is a major threat of terror in the UK. If the police fail to identify and stop potential perps, before they carry out attacks, then the police obviously have failed in their primary task. …its barely a day after the event, we don’t even know who was responsible and you are already pointing the finger of blame at the police? Was 9/11 the fault of the New York Police Department? The NYPD should be rightly called to task because planes hit the towers? The NYPD failed in their primary task? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040/60 "2017-06-05T02:43:45Z")
It’s probably an intelligence failure - 1st the bombing and now this in a short span. In India, we are told that for every terrorist attack, there are several attacks which are thwarted due to intelligence. So we can’t even blame the intelligence if that’s the case in Britain as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-hits-pedestrians-at-london-bridge/788040.md?page=4)