# Van lifer goes missing on cross country trip with fiancee **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604 "2021-09-13T13:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/401 "2021-09-21T15:49:18Z")
Yes, Utah has mandatory arrest laws, with some wiggle room if there wasn’t serious injury and the officer doesn’t believe the abuse will continue. Here’s a comparative chart: [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://leg.mt.gov/content/Committees/Interim/2017-2018/Law-and-Justice/Meetings/July-2018/Exhibits/LJIC-July16-2018-Ex30.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj1ifWhs5DzAhWADjQIHRKzAtIQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw16P2PTaxq4PWrWj3Wkhwb3](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://leg.mt.gov/content/Committees/Interim/2017-2018/Law-and-Justice/Meetings/July-2018/Exhibits/LJIC-July16-2018-Ex30.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj1ifWhs5DzAhWADjQIHRKzAtIQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw16P2PTaxq4PWrWj3Wkhwb3) The body cam video from when they were stopped in Utah made it seem like she was the aggressor (only he had marks on him, and the police stated that witnesses had only seen her attacking him, not the reverse.) It looked like they were going out of their way not to have to arrest her. But then subsequent news reports show that, in fact, at least once 911 caller did report seeing him slap her, so I’m not sure what happened there. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/402 "2021-09-21T16:14:34Z")
It’s also entirely possible they were mutually abusive, we just don’t know what we don’t know. It is not at all unusual for **both** partners in a romantic relationship to be physically and emotionally abusive. Gabby could have been the aggressor in the incident the police responded to, but been the victim in a later incident that cost her her life. What is true is whether both sides are physically abusive or it’s just the man who is physically abusive, due to the natural sexual dimorphism in our species such a relationship will far more often end up bad for the woman than the man. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/403 "2021-09-21T16:26:10Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > But then subsequent news reports show that, in fact, at least once 911 caller did report seeing him slap her, so I’m not sure what happened there. Assuming the officers even heard from the 911 dispatcher that Gabby was slapped, when they arrived on the scene they got a different story and went with that. I imagine a lot of information is lost when information goes from a witness, to a 911 operator, who then relays that information to the officer somehow. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/404 "2021-09-21T16:43:43Z")
Read up on Kristin Smart. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/405 "2021-09-21T17:55:00Z")
There must be some limits on the “somebody goes to jail rule”. What if someone calls the police to my house because they heard a loud argument in the middle of the night but no one even touched each other or worse, a vindictive neighbor calling the cops when literally nothing happened. There must have to be evidence of physical violence for someone to be arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/406 "2021-09-21T18:07:33Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Read up on Kristin Smart. It happens. And it works! 25 years, and they still don’t even have the body. If this were a L&O episode, they’d be on their third DA and 6th set of detectives and still we’re only in Act 2. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/407 "2021-09-21T19:23:14Z")
I’d argue it works pretty rarely. This was an extraordinary case that was screwed up from the start by the incompetence of the Cal Poly police, who didn’t realize how far in over their heads they were. Owing to a tragic string of events, killer person-of-interest Paul Flores had more than a month before a somewhat more competent investigation was begun by the Sheriff’s Department. The case was further ruined when former Sheriff Ed Williams publicly commented, “We need Paul Flores to tell us what happened to Kristin Smart." “There are no other suspects,” he continued. “So absent something from Mr. Flores, I don’t see us completing this case.” Way to tell your prime suspect to just shut up. It should also be noted that both Paul Flores and his father, Ruben Flores, are currently being tried for the Smart murder and cover-up. They just finished the prelim. According to a local television station, the judge will rule tomorrow as to whether prosecutors proved up their case sufficiently to bind the case over for trial. We’ll know more then. > **[Testimony in Kristin Smart case preliminary hearing wraps up; judge to rule...](https://www.ksby.com/news/kristin-smart-case/testimony-resumes-in-kristin-smart-case-preliminary-hearing-after-week-off)** > > Testimony resumed Monday in the preliminary hearing for Paul and Ruben Flores, the two men charged in connection with the 1996 disappearance of Cal Poly student Kristin Smart. I won’t hijack this thread further, but the circumstances and the differences between the Petito and Smart cases are significant. For a start, they have a body in the Petito case. I’ll go out on a limb and guess they have a cause of death, too. If the Smart case was a L&O episode, they’d kill it before it ever hit the small screen. No one would believe how bad that case was screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/408 "2021-09-21T19:32:09Z")
Look at the document I linked to a few posts ago. The mandatory arrest laws always require at least probable cause to believe violence has occurred. Some states have laws that permit arrest upon reasonable suspicion, which is a lower standard, but then it’s not mandatory. A lot of ink has been spilled trying to define probable cause, but “someone phoned in a report of an argument” isn’t it. > **[Probable Cause](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/probable_cause)** ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/409 "2021-09-21T21:19:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If my child were in this situation, “hide the body and tell no one until you get here” would strike me as being an utterly insane thing to say. I suppose it depends on where, in the timeline, they came onboard. If he’d already done certain things then ‘don’t say or do anything else, the longer it takes to find her, the less evidence there’ll be’ would be the best way to protect your child. I’d assume they were panicked themselves at that point. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/410 "2021-09-21T21:25:27Z")
What is most unusual, regardless of what happened, is that he drives back to Florida alone. How was he going to explain that? They had a fight so he just leaves her 3,000 miles from home? It makes little sense because if it was an innocent thing, he would have stuck around to keep her safe. If it was a not so innocent thing, he should have stayed there and made up some bullshit story. My WAG? Boy genius killed her and came up with what he thought was a good story and in his mind the drive back to Florida made sense. Then when he tells his story to his parents, they hire an attorney, and when he repeats the bullshit to the attorney, the attorney levels with him and tells him that his story sucks and that he will be looking at prison time. So he runs. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/411 "2021-09-21T21:25:56Z")
If only smart people became criminals the jails and prisons wouldn’t have nearly so many people in them. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/412 "2021-09-21T21:30:38Z")
The FBI has confirmed that the body which was found was Gabby Petito’s, and that she was a homicide victim. > **[Gabby Petito: Body found in Wyoming is missing 'van life' blogger](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58646087)** > > A coroner says the 22-year-old's death was a homicide but gives no details as to how she died. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/413 "2021-09-21T22:50:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I believe the police have said they are no longer looking at the nature reserve; they likely have evidence telling them he never went there–I suspect that was a diversionary tactic by the parents. Apparently police are still searching the Carlton Reserve for Laundrie, according to the Washington Post. DeSantis earlier today ordered Florida Fish and Wildlife officers to assist in the search. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/414 "2021-09-21T22:54:02Z")
Not “still”, they announced they have restarted searching there, after suspending the search there earlier–and claiming they basically had nothing to go on at the Carlton Reserve. I assume maybe they had additional information come in, but obviously they aren’t sharing details with us while this is ongoing. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/415 "2021-09-21T23:33:32Z")
Obviously these agencies know more than me, but there is no way that dude is surviving out in the Everglades. Alligators and mosquitoes will get him. He wouldn’t last a day. Not many people would. That isn’t like sleeping in a van listening to IHeartRadio on your cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/416 "2021-09-21T23:49:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > there is no way that dude is surviving out in the Everglades. Alligators and mosquitoes will get him. He wouldn’t last a day. Not many people would. Well the Carlton Reserve is quite a bit north of the Everglades per se. Even so, let’s not exaggerate - the Everglades are not that bad. It’s just a big swamp - I’ve been in a number of them. Most people would last a day 🙂. For all the hype alligator attacks on people are actually pretty uncommon and fatalities quite rare. But the mosquitoes do suck. Your wider point that this dude is probably not well suited to holding out in the wilderness for very long probably stands. I rather expect him or his body to turn up soon enough. But if he’s found dead, I suspect it is much more likely to be suicide than rampaging wilderness that gets him. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/417 "2021-09-22T00:00:20Z")
I think this is probably one of the more realistic scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/418 "2021-09-22T00:01:08Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If only smart people became criminals the jails and prisons wouldn’t have nearly so many people in them. Truth. I’ll add that even smart people panic and do stupid things. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The FBI has confirmed that the body which was found was Gabby Petito’s, and that she was a homicide victim. Not a surprise, but this is sad news. Based on this, it rules out an accidental death. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/419 "2021-09-22T00:01:22Z")
He’s gonna need food and water at some point. He might have brought a backpack with some of those items but he’s gonna start running out soon, assuming he’s even still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/420 "2021-09-22T00:11:14Z")
something that I wondered about after watching the video was the inside of the van when they were pulled over. It was a mess. Not the kind of thing I expected from someone who was OCD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604.md?page=22)