# Van lifer goes missing on cross country trip with fiancee **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604 "2021-09-13T13:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1204 "2021-10-23T19:27:27Z")
I’m a little confused as to why the timeline even matters. Brian’s parents said he had gone to the Carlton Reserve / Environmental Park area to hike. He did go there. He killed himself there weeks ago. The only reason their activities matter is if they had “helped him flee apprehension” or “helped him hide evidence he had committed a crime”, there is no evidence they did either. In fact they cooperated with law enforcement once Brian left, significantly above and beyond what was required. We actually have no evidence there is anything they know, that they didn’t tell police. At the time Brian left, he was not the subject of an arrest warrant, so their communications with police between 9/11-9/21 cannot be criminal attempts to help him “evade capture” because he was not subject to arrest–he was a legally free person allowed to travel wherever he pleased. By the time the arrest warrant was issued, it is highly likely Brian was already dead, so no one was helping him do anything. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1205 "2021-10-23T19:31:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m a little confused as to why the timeline even matters. Right. We are now in “God mode” where we know that what the parents told the police was accurate. He was found exactly where the parents told the police he went. The suspicion was that they lied about the nature reserve so that he could be on the run somewhere. This has been shown definitively to be false. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1206 "2021-10-23T19:32:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When the police show up without an arrest warrant or search warrant, it is a consensual encounter, no different than me knocking on the neighbor’s door and asking to speak with someone inside. The police, like me, in that situation have no power to demand that anyone present themselves at the door. The difference is that the police document a lack of cooperation. The police are the least of the problems for the parents of Brian. They will be tried in a court where you have no voice. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1207 "2021-10-23T19:36:34Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > He killed himself there weeks ago. We don’t know that he killed himself. The ME didn’t find a cause of death and now the remains are going to a forensic anthropologist for further examination. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1208 "2021-10-23T19:37:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They will be tried in a court where you have no voice. Tried for what? Please be specific as to the actual crimes they are being charged with. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1209 "2021-10-23T19:39:02Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Tried for what? I believe that he is referring to the court of public opinion. Even if they did not commit a crime, there are a lot of people who believe that they did, or at least believe that they failed in a moral obligation to act differently. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1210 "2021-10-23T19:39:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The difference is that the police document a lack of cooperation. So what? They failed to cooperate. Nothing illegal about that at all. Plus you don’t know that they even failed to cooperate. Brian does not want to speak with you. That is passing on true information. They told the police exactly where he would be found after they determined he was truly missing and had not just stepped out. How is that failing to cooperate? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1211 "2021-10-23T19:40:36Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Even if they did not commit a crime, there are a lot of people (including people here) who believe that they did, or at least believe that they failed in a moral obligation to act differently. What is the evidence for that? What did they do/not do? They should have told their son to go confess to murder and take your lethal injection like a man? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1212 "2021-10-23T19:41:01Z")
They will be tried in the court of public opinion. Don’t know how that will go. Don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1213 "2021-10-23T19:42:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What is the evidence for that? What did they do/not do? They should have told their son to go confess to murder and take your lethal injection like a man? To be absolutely clear: I have **no idea** if there’s any evidence for that, and I am **not** among those who believe this. I am simply stating that there are clearly people who _do_ believe this, whether or not there is any evidence or truth to their belief. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1214 "2021-10-23T19:44:00Z")
Oh, you must care, why else are you defending your position so fiercely? > [@Magiver](#): > > They will be tried in a court where you have no voice. So, if our voices don’t count in your court of public opinion, who’s voices do? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1215 "2021-10-23T19:46:34Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Oh, you must care, why else are you defending your position so fiercely? what position am I fiercely defending? ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1216 "2021-10-23T19:47:30Z")
Who’s voices count in the court of public opinion if not those of the general public? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1217 "2021-10-23T19:53:08Z")
In the court of public opinion no one gives a fuck about Internet lawyers who insist that “cannot be proven to have committed a crime” and “did not do anything wrong” are identical. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1218 "2021-10-23T19:57:09Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Who’s voices count in the court of public opinion if not those of the general public? Pretty much everybody. But those who represent the law become background noise. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1219 "2021-10-23T19:58:47Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > In the court of public opinion no one gives a fuck about Internet lawyers who insist that “cannot be proven to have committed a crime” and “did not do anything wrong” are identical. that’s right. Nobody gives a fuck about internet lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1220 "2021-10-23T20:07:06Z")
I mean Brian’s parents are retired people living in Florida. Their story will quickly be forgotten because this isn’t an interesting story anymore, and they’ll fall back into their anonymous forgotten lives. In so much as they will be tried in the court of public opinion—that happened back in September and much like the people in this thread, the trial was based on supposition, bias, and half-assed theories. Good thing we don’t operate real courts that way. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1221 "2021-10-23T20:07:36Z")
He did. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1222 "2021-10-23T20:10:25Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > Who’s voices count in the court of public opinion if not those of the general public? The issue, of course, is that “the court of public opinion” is not an actual court; it’s nothing but a morass of differing public opinions, hearsay, and amateur detectives. The “court of public opinion” is also where some people decide to take justice into their own hands, particularly if they believe that the Laundries are being allowed to “get away with it” by the authorities. It’s a certainty that the parents will be hounded by people who are convinced of their “guilt,” possibly for years, and some of whom will undoubtedly make threats of violence against them (some of which may be credible threats). ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604/1223 "2021-10-23T20:13:54Z")
Which is why I was being confused about Magiver having the power to choose who’s voice counts in this nebulous court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/van-lifer-goes-missing-on-cross-country-trip-with-fiancee/950604.md?page=62)