# Vandalizing the Vietnam Veterans Memorial does your cause no good, fucker! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535 "2007-09-17T20:36:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/41 "2007-09-18T01:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] That doesn’t change the fact that there have been quite a lot of these incidents - certainly more than general vandalism would account for. Especially given the political messages given to the vandalism. [/quote] Ah yes, all two of them in a three-year period. **Mr. Moto** , you are an idiot. You come up with these bullshit OPs that are sometimes the latest wingnut gripe, or sometimes one of your own, but never turn out to be based on much of anything. You’re the boy who cried “dirty fucking hippie.” Some people have a death wish. You’ve got a ridiculousness wish, I guess. > [@](#): > > Like it or not, the antiwar movement does have some baggage. And how many GOP Congresscritters or SAOs have been convicted of crimes or resigned in disgrace in the past two years?? Now _that_’s baggage. The antiwar movement can’t remotely compare. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/42 "2007-09-18T01:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Look, I never implied that this was organized - quite the contrary. That doesn’t change the fact that there have been quite a lot of these incidents - certainly more than general vandalism would account for. Especially given the political messages given to the vandalism. [/QUOTE] By my count, you’ve managed to list two incidents with a clear political message. There’s no apparent message or motive to either the Vietnam War memorial, or the Bay City Huey paintball vandalism. You say you’ve got plenty of other examples, but if this sample is representative of them all, you haven’t really proved much of anything, here. Particularly if, as I suspect, you skimmed the best stories from your secret list to make your point. While I’m at it, I’m a bit confused as to how you’ve come to the conclusion that this is “more than general vandalism would account for.” How many war memorials have been vandalized since the start of the war? And how many war memorial were vandalized in a similar time period before the war started? Has there been a definite increase in such incidents of vandalism? Can you demonstrate as such? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/43 "2007-09-18T02:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Was the pickle slice removed and set carefully atop the bun? That would have meaning, you know. [/QUOTE] No, and what would that mean? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/44 "2007-09-18T02:04:55Z")
[Hattiesburg, MS.](http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/708290322/1002) [Nogales, AZ.](http://www.nogalesinternational.com/articles/2007/09/14/opinion/opinion1.txt) [Mount Pleasant, MI.](http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=119687) [Beeville, TX.](http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6487659) [Sacramento, CA.](http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_246195056.html) [The aforementioned Andover.](http://www.andovertownsman.com/local/local_story_248201034.html) Now, it is clear something is going on. All of these stories are from 2007. The earliest is from May. If I go back further, I can come up with lots more. I trust this won’t be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/45 "2007-09-18T02:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] All of these stories are from 2007. [/QUOTE] With the exception of the Andover incident, do any of these have links to the anti-war movement? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/46 "2007-09-18T02:12:42Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] [Hattiesburg, MS.](http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/708290322/1002) [Nogales, AZ.](http://www.nogalesinternational.com/articles/2007/09/14/opinion/opinion1.txt) [Mount Pleasant, MI.](http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=119687) [Beeville, TX.](http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6487659) [Sacramento, CA.](http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_246195056.html) [The aforementioned Andover.](http://www.andovertownsman.com/local/local_story_248201034.html) Now, it is clear something is going on. All of these stories are from 2007. The earliest is from May. If I go back further, I can come up with lots more. I trust this won’t be necessary. [/QUOTE] People vandalizing memorials and graves. I checked, and apparently this has been going on for hundreds of years. This cabal has been plotting against us for a _very_ long time! Seriously, **Mr. Moto** , what do events have to do with each other, and/or with the antiwar movement? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/47 "2007-09-18T02:16:25Z")
From the Beeville story: > [@Beeville war memorial destroyed](#): > > Police are not investigating incident at this point, saying there’s no way to determine if memorial was vandalized. Or damaged by accident. [sic] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/48 "2007-09-18T02:17:45Z")
Also, for those who speculate that the oil at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wasn’t vandalism, I will point out that monuments at [Gettysburg](http://www.geocities.com/gburginfo/vandalism.htm) were recently vandalized in exactly the same fashion. Now, this was done at Vicksburg in 1997 by a group of religious zealots. This might have been the case at Gettysburg, and for all I know might have been the case at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial as well. I have stated earlier that I didn’t think these were explicitly linked - I still think that. If I erred in assuming the idiot who did this was an anarchist wannabe, I’ll retract that. If he turns out to be a religious nutjob, I’ll denounce him with equal fervor. My pitting was over the acts, which I think we can all get behind, and given the incidents in Gettysburg and Vicksburg, I think the folks here insisting the acts at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial were not vandalism ought to drop that. Clearly it was. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/49 "2007-09-18T02:18:02Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] [Hattiesburg, MS.](http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070829/NEWS01/708290322/1002) Now, it is clear something is going on. [/QUOTE] From the link: > [@](#): > > City officials discovered the graffiti - green markings that read “Wake up Hattiesburg!” on City Hall and surrounding walls Yep, serious stuff that. At the very bottom of the article, it does say: > [@](#): > > She said board members were particularly concerned with the graffiti that was sprayed at Veterans Memorial Park. > > “Whether they know it or not, these criminals have disrespected the memory of the many local veterans honored at the downtown memorial, by desecrating and vandalizing that site, especially during a time of war,” James said. One gets the distinct impression from the link that the vandalism to the _park_ (no indication of vandalism to the memorial itself) was regarded as trivial compared to the spray paint on the walls of City Hall. I’m not even gonna bother with the other links, if this is the pathetic, weak-ass shit you’ve got. You’re wasting our time, **Mr. Moto**. Apologize and call it a night. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/50 "2007-09-18T02:19:34Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] People vandalizing memorials and graves. I checked, and apparently this has been going on for hundreds of years. This cabal has been plotting against us for a _very_ long time! Seriously, **Mr. Moto** , what do events have to do with each other, and/or with the antiwar movement? [/QUOTE] Hey, I just said it might make the antiwar movement look bad. Never said much more than that, did I? ---
**Author:** ![wanagasan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e56c9b/32.png) [@wanagasan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wanagasan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/51 "2007-09-18T02:20:55Z")
If there was any justice in the world the vandals would have done something to the “memorial by committee” abomination known as the WWII Memorial. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/52 "2007-09-18T02:23:09Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Hey, I just said it might make the antiwar movement look bad. Never said much more than that, did I? [/QUOTE] And how does thousands dead in Iraq make your President look? When come back, bring sense of perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/53 "2007-09-18T02:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Never said much more than that, did I? [/QUOTE] From your OP: [QUOTE=Mr. Moto] There has been quite a rash of these incidents recently - and they have an obvious antiwar theme. [/QUOTE] You were deliberately painting all war memorial vandalism as coming from the ant-war movement. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/54 "2007-09-18T02:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Also, for those who speculate that the oil at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wasn’t vandalism, I will point out that monuments at [Gettysburg](http://www.geocities.com/gburginfo/vandalism.htm) were recently vandalized in exactly the same fashion. [/quote] ‘Recently’ being 1999. > [@](#): > > Now, this was done at Vicksburg in 1997 by a group of religious zealots. This might have been the case at Gettysburg, and for all I know might have been the case at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial as well. So we’ve got two or three instances of this in a decade or so. > [@](#): > > given the incidents in Gettysburg and Vicksburg, I think the folks here insisting the acts at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial were not vandalism ought to drop that. Clearly it was. Yeah, because if someone deliberately spilled oil on monuments in 1997 and 1999, the current incident also is unquestionably deliberate vandalism. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t vandalism, but your argument vandalizes logic. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/55 "2007-09-18T02:33:23Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Hey, I just said it might make the antiwar movement look bad. Never said much more than that, did I? [/QUOTE] You are aware that people can still read your OP, right? > [@](#): > > Now, I’d like to call this an isolated act of an isolated loon - but I really can’t. There has been quite a rash of these incidents recently - and they have an obvious antiwar theme. > [@](#): > > And I doubt the cops would be impressed, or those bikers either, or those old guys in the car with a lifetime fucking VFW membership. And even people who wouldn’t want to kick your ass wouldn’t want you near them - because other people would be gunning for your ass. Yeah, the VFW is notorious for its violent attacks on Civil War protestors. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/56 "2007-09-18T02:33:26Z")
Remember that time the antiwar hippies vandalized Jefferson’s Camaro before the big game with Lincoln? Clearly a pattern is emerging. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/57 "2007-09-18T02:33:48Z")
Not all. But when peace symbols are spraypainted on the Medal of Honor memorial, or “war, what is it good for” on a war memorial, conclusions can be drawn. And again, I was careful not to tie it in the OP to any kind of movement, as any movement would disavow such acts. Still, if a clinic bombing can make honest and moderate pro-lifers look bad (and it can) then this stuff can make honest and moderate antiwar activists look bad as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/58 "2007-09-18T02:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=wanagasan] If there was any justice in the world the vandals would have done something to the “memorial by committee” abomination known as the WWII Memorial. [/QUOTE] Preferably with bulldozers, to force them to start over from scratch. Those who fought in WWII deserve something a hell of a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/59 "2007-09-18T02:36:29Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] ‘Recently’ being 1999. [/QUOTE] Well, Gettysburg was vandalized again last year, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535/60 "2007-09-18T02:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Still, if a clinic bombing can make honest and moderate pro-lifers look bad (and it can) then this stuff can make honest and moderate antiwar activists look bad as well. [/QUOTE] You compile a list of vandalism with unknown motives and toss in one instance with a sort-of link to an antiwar theme, and suddenly it makes antiwar activists look bad. Fatuous liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandalizing-the-vietnam-veterans-memorial-does-your-cause-no-good-fucker/419535.md?page=4)