# Vandals damage home while family away -- they're "children" and won't be charged **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 14, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007 "2021-04-14T22:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/41 "2021-04-15T14:50:51Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > There’s no reasonable excuse for not knowing whether your policy covers contents _at all_ . When our oldest bought their first home I had to sit them down and explain the different kinds of insurance for their cars and house. They knew there were some requirements from the state and mortgage lender, but they didn’t really understand all the options for limits and coverages. If not for that chat, (and without a good agent\*) I could easily imagine that it might not even occur to them that their homeowner policy might not cover contents. Once you get it, it’s not that complicated, but someone has to alert you to the issue in the first place. \*even good agents fail to really inform people about everything, such as the necessity of high limit UIM insurance and the option to get an umbrella policy. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/42 "2021-04-15T15:52:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Honestly, it’s the family’s fault for not having homeowner’s insurance that covers the contents. What would they do if there was a house fire? Wait, what? Are insurance companies charities that pay for your stuff out of the goodness of their heart? This is a side track, but this logic makes zero sense. They are profit making companies, so why would pay them in the knowledge that over time you are almost guaranteed (or at least very likely) to spend more on insuring your stuff than they will pay out in return. For things like liability or health (in the US at least) where there is a good chance you will end up paying millions and be bankrupted, insurance makes sense, as you are paying to alleviate that risk because the insurance company can pay those millions of dollars but you can’t. But insuring your computer in case some kid pees on it makes zero sense financially. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/43 "2021-04-15T15:55:03Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > But insuring your computer in case some kid pees on it makes zero sense financially. Well, you’re also insuring it in case of fire, theft, water damage, etc. If it was just “kid pee insurance,” I’d agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/44 "2021-04-15T15:57:05Z")
From an Allstate Insurance [webpage](https://www.allstate.com/tr/home-insurance/hazard-insurance.aspx), " Some common examples of hazards (also referred to as perils) that are typically covered by homeowners insurance include fire, theft and vandalism, among others." Or read [this page](https://www.allstate.com/tr/home-insurance/perils.aspx), which lists “vandalism and malicious mischief” among the commonly covered perils. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/45 "2021-04-15T15:58:03Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, you’re also insuring it in case of fire, theft, water damage, etc. If it was just “kid pee insurance,” I’d agree with you. yeah but its stuff you can replace, why would pay _more_ than the stuff is worth (or at least more than you will ever receive back from insurance) in insurance premiums. Financially its a no-brainer. Insurance companies exist and don’t go bankrupt. So you _know_ that on average they will pay you less than you pay them. So why do it? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/46 "2021-04-15T16:00:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > From an Allstate Insurance [webpage](https://www.allstate.com/tr/home-insurance/hazard-insurance.aspx), " Some common examples of hazards (also referred to as perils) that are typically covered by homeowners insurance include fire, theft and vandalism, among others." > > Or read [this page](https://www.allstate.com/tr/home-insurance/perils.aspx), which lists “vandalism and malicious mischief” among the commonly covered perils. And last time I checked All-State was a for-profit company and had not gone bankrupt so we know that on average each customer pays them more than they pay out for "vandalism and malicious mischief” and everything else. So why should I do that? I mean if I want to spend money I’m guaranteed (on average over time) not to get back, why not go to Vegas and put in on the slots? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/47 "2021-04-15T16:03:09Z")
Most people don’t get their stuff stolen or destroyed, so it’s not a matter of spreading the risk over time, it’s a matter of spreading it over the population. While it is true that you are likely to pay into insurance and never get it back, all it will take is one claim to make you a “winner”. I pay something absurdly small like $80 a year to cover about $15,000 in contents. It would take me 200 years to pay more than what I would get under a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/48 "2021-04-15T16:03:48Z")
Sorry, I thought you were questioning the idea that homeowner’s insurance should cover this vandalism. I may decide that my house is full of old clothes and furniture that’s not worth much, so I can probably replace it out of savings and investments in the rare event that it’s destroyed. (And I get to buy all new stuff, so bonus.) But I may still want insurance against someone tripping and getting injured in my house or against the house itself burning down. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/49 "2021-04-15T16:03:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Once you get it, it’s not that complicated, but someone has to alert you to the issue in the first place. I’m not sure I really agree. All you have to do is look at the _front page_ of your policy document, the summary sheet. I just looked at mine, and it has a total of 8 numbers on it, all in very large print, all crystal clear what they represent. One of the items is: Personal Property such as furniture and clothing. Your coverage limit: $XYZ,000 It really couldn’t be clearer, and I think a lot of this clarity is mandated by law. If there’s anything on that simple summary that you don’t understand, you can ask. If someone doesn’t have the diligence to read a single summary page with 8 numbers on it, there are many far more difficult and dangerous things in life that will trip them up. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/50 "2021-04-15T16:04:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > While it is true that you are likely to pay into insurance and never get it back, all it will take is one claim to make you a “winner”. Hey same for those slots at Vegas, but no one is berating the family in the OP for not doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/51 "2021-04-15T16:04:28Z")
Because averages mean nothing when it is you that has suffered a loss. It the reason anyone buys insurance, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/52 "2021-04-15T16:10:01Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Insurance companies exist and don’t go bankrupt. So you _know_ that on average they will pay you less than you pay them. So why do it? Because losing all your stuff is a financial catastrophe that many people can’t absorb. There certainly have been times in my life I could not have replaced all my stuff, so buying insurance was a way to spread the risk with other people, who are also _on average_ unlikely to lose their stuff. On average, I’ll pay more in car insurance than I’ll ever collect. But, if I caused an accident (unlikely but not impossible) it’s good to know my insurance company will take care of compensating the guy I hit. When I had kids who needed my financial support, I bought a lot of life insurance. I knew that on average, I would pay the premiums and never collect (yea!). Buying contents insurance as part of a homeowners policy is just like any other insurance. You hope you never need it, but it’s a relatively small cost to protect you against a larger loss. (I hate that I sound like an insurance industry shill. I hate insurance companies because they’re greedy and don’t like paying legitimate claims, but the concept of insurance is a good thing) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/53 "2021-04-15T16:12:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > While it is true that you are likely to pay into insurance and never get it back, all it will take is one claim to make you a “winner”. But this is really not the correct way to look at it. The expected value of insurance to the customer is obviously always negative. It’s not principally a question of the probability of “winning”, it’s a question of the _magnitude_ of the potential loss given your financial resources, whether the potential loss would be devastating and life-changing. Everyone should decline any “extended warranties” on a refrigerator or a computer. Virtually everyone should have basic insurance on total loss of their primary home. In between, there will be some threshold on the size of potential loss that you should insure that will vary according to circumstances. The general contents of a home (tens of thousands of dollars) are probably right around a level that could fall either way for different people. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/54 "2021-04-15T16:12:41Z")
Not really, and your analogies to “slots” are pretty useless. It is not “playing” and trying to win against the house. It is hedging against loss. Maybe you have enough money on hand to replace the contents of your house, but not everyone does. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/55 "2021-04-15T16:23:13Z")
What’s all the controversy about? Obviously there was more to the story than stated in the linked article. They either had insurance coverage or they didn’t. The parents of those kids have to pay for the damage they did. Who cares if anyone was prosecuted? The owners of the house want the damage paid for, it won’t do them any good to have a bunch of neighborhood kids sent to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/56 "2021-04-15T16:30:13Z")
Something worth adding here. An “intermediate” strategy that I often favor (and have for my homeowners’ insurance) is to get substantial coverage, but with a very high deductible that’s within my financial resources to absorb. This covers me for disasters, but usually reduces the premium substantially. A high deductible is a non-zero-sum benefit to both customer and insurance company, because it saves both parties the hassle and administrative expense of submitting claiming for smaller losses. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/57 "2021-04-15T16:38:38Z")
I don’t think that they should be sent to jail either. But some sort of probation and community service would be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/58 "2021-04-15T16:40:38Z")
After the homeowners are compensated that would be fine. Do you mean the kids or their parents? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/59 "2021-04-15T16:45:31Z")
The kids should be the ones doing community service. The parents should be responsible for fiscal damages. But, as we’ve seen, they may not be liable for all the damages, just a certain amount of them, and they may not be able to pay even that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007/60 "2021-04-15T16:46:41Z")
I want to know the ages of the ‘children’ before deciding who is really at fault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vandals-damage-home-while-family-away-theyre-children-and-wont-be-charged/940007.md?page=4)