# Vanilla is an ignorant bitch. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271 "2001-11-19T20:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/1 "2001-11-19T20:40:28Z")
Over in the Jack Chick thread we saw a big old lump of ignorance named **Vanilla** come lumbering in, declaring that she believed that the Harry Potter books were “designed to teach kids witchcraft”, and as such would not allow her kids to read them. Then then saying that she agreed with Jack Chick’s take on the Christian religion. When asked about defending this statement, **Vanilla** said that the Harry Potter books made it seem like it was OK to lie. WTF?? Who asked you about that? Finally, after further prodding, **Vanilla** made the statement that “Christians believe that working magic is evil”. After this she admitted to never having read Narnia, a very magical series, which is considered the best Christian’s children’s series ever. Willful ignorance makes me angry. Hearing people say that they agree with Jack Chick makes me angry. People randomly objecting to a wonderful work of children’s literature on knee-jerk pseudoreligious grounds makes me angry. **Vanilla** makes me angry. LC ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/2 "2001-11-19T20:44:39Z")
Calling someone’s mom a bitch makes me angry. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/3 "2001-11-19T20:47:10Z")
bitch. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/4 "2001-11-19T20:54:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Calling someone’s mom a bitch makes me angry We-e-l-l, Kyle’s mom is a big ol’bitch, ---
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/5 "2001-11-19T21:03:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*Calling someone’s mom a bitch makes me angry. \*\* If this was in some way accessible to **Vanilla** ’s kids, that might be a good point. As it is, I feel really sorry for her kids, considering all of the things that will probably be denied to them, starting with Harry Potter. How much do you think their little friends talk about Harry Potter, and how excited they probably are about the movie. **Vanilla** ’s kids won’t be able to take part in the discussions. They will know that their friends haven’t become evil witchcraft types :rolleyes:, and yet they still aren’t allowed to read these books. All due to the fact that their mom is, ready? AN IGNORANT BITCH. Thanks. LC ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/6 "2001-11-19T21:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*We-e-l-l, Kyle’s mom is a big ol’bitch, \*\* She’s the biggest bitch in the whole wide world She’s a stupid bitch if there ever was a bitch She’s a bitch to all the boys and girls On Monday she’s a bitch On Tuesday she’s a bitch On Wednsday through Saturday she’s a bitch Then on Sunday, just to be different, she’s a superkinkamayamayabeeatch ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/7 "2001-11-19T21:18:41Z")
See, this is something that pisses me off. When we talk about censorship, the response is always, “Concerned parents should choose for themselves what their kids read, instead of forcing their choices on libraries.” And that’s true. But then when some actually does decide what their kids read, they get blasted for it, too. That’s right, Lucky, in your infinite teenaged wisdom, you definitely should be the one deciding what someone else’s kids are allowed to read. And the Harry Potter books do have some pro-lying and disobedience themes. The kids break a bunch of rules and get away with it; are, in fact, rewarded for it. It’s not anything I would consider dangerous, but if a parent says they don’t want their kids reading it, well, it’s their damn kid, and their decision. Not yours. Lastly, post a fucking link. I saw that thread, and if I remember correctly you are misrepresenting some of what vanilla said. –John ---
**Author:** ![Infectious\_Lass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@Infectious\_Lass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infectious_Lass)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/8 "2001-11-19T21:19:59Z")
Huh? You’re not allowed to call a woman a bitch if she has children? WTF??? Why should reproductive status prohibit what you call someone? Only childless women can be called bitches all of a sudden, I don’t blinkin’ think so! If someone is an unpleasant person having kids doesn’t unbitchtyfy them overnight! (and I am neutral on this particualar argument, I have no idea if Vanilla is a bitch or not as I don’t know her, although her reasoning is somewhat bizarre. Thankyou.) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/9 "2001-11-19T21:30:51Z")
I trust we are speaking of a **_V_anilla** and not **vanilla**? ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/10 "2001-11-19T21:31:27Z")
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a parent censoring their child’s reading material,if (and it’s a big if) they know what they are talking about, and don’t jump on a bandwagon with a bunch of other ignorant skeptics.I have a pretty liberal view when it comes to what my kids read,figuring that even if they read trash now it may give them a lifelong love of reading.I have personally read all the Harry Potter books (started the first one to see what all the hoopla was about and got hooked), a smattering of Goosebumps and my youngest childs favorite; Captain Underpants.Sure I would love to see them read a few more of the classics (Harry Potter notwithstanding,I’m sure it’s a classic already)As long as they read age appropriate books,I will allow them to read whatever they enjoy,but I will always be aware of what they are reading by either skimming or reading all of their material.If the day comes when they bring home a book I deem contrary to our morals I _will_ censor it. That’s my job as a parent.I will explain to them what I find objectionable and why.Just because everyone else is reading it doesn’t make a good argument in my opinion.When my daughter was ten she would argue endlessly with me because she wanted to watch South Park, saying all her friends watched it. Too bad.I know it’s a cartoon, that doesn’t make it for kids(I happen to like the show).I do not agree with **Vanilla’s** opinion at all,but IMHO if the books go against her moral belief she has every right to censor what her children are reading. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/11 "2001-11-19T21:31:59Z")
I don’t know her either. The OP claims she said some things but provides no link for verification. Until then, all we know for certain is that a young man disagrees with a mother’s decision regarding how she’ll raise her kids. That doesn’t make her a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/12 "2001-11-19T21:39:44Z")
I would have loved a link too, as I have a question before I saw whether **Vanilla** is ignorant. Has she read any of the Harry Potter books? If not, I really don’t like people who will tell you what something is “about” when they have no first-hand information. Don’t tell me what Harry Potter promotes or doesn’t promote based on what you heard on a talk-radio station or from someone at work. In order to make really informed decisions as a parent, you need to understand what you are censoring (or not censoring, as the case may be). That means reading what your kids read, watching what your kids watch. Fight ignorance. Educate yourself. Don’t rely on others to do your thinking and decision-making for you. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/13 "2001-11-19T21:50:35Z")
I found the link myself. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=97133](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=97133) a) She has read Harry Potter. b) Lucky is a liar. S/he said: > [@](#): > > Then then saying that she agreed with Jack Chick’s take on the Christian religion. vanilla said this about Jack Chick: > [@](#): > > I think Mr. Chick is a bit screwy myself. > [@](#): > > I think he seesm kindof nutbally She DID say the “statement of faith” on his webpage: [http://www.chick.com/information/general/statementoffaith.asp](http://www.chick.com/information/general/statementoffaith.asp) was something she would agree with, but in the context of saying that it was a broad statement that all Christians would probably agree with. Looking at it, I would say that not all but most Christians would; it’s pretty generic… God in Three person, blah blah blah, only begotten son and so forth, eternal reward yada yada. She followed that statement with this: > [@](#): > > From some of the links provided in the past on the sdmb, it seems Chick thinks Catholics are bound for hell. > I disagree with that. > He seems a bit off, like Texe Marrs. –John ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/14 "2001-11-19T21:55:16Z")
Thank you, Yue Han/John. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/15 "2001-11-19T21:57:08Z")
Oops… at least I thought I saw where vanilla said she’d read the books but I can’t find it now. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/16 "2001-11-19T22:39:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > \*\*See, this is something that pisses me off. When we talk about censorship, the response is always, “Concerned parents should choose for themselves what their kids read, instead of forcing their choices on libraries.” And that’s true. > > But then when some actually does decide what their kids read, they get blasted for it, too. > \*\* Ignorance is to be fought, even when it isn’t forced upon people. Ignorant opinions should be challenged, even when there is no censorship issue involved. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/17 "2001-11-19T22:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > \*\*Oops… at least I thought I saw where vanilla said she’d read the books but I can’t find it now. \*\* From the Jack Chick thread (third post, page 4): > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by vanilla_ > **Yes, I’ve read two of them. > I foudn a lot of making it seem that lying and disobeying are a-okay. > Not everyone will agree on everything. > This isn’t a case of clear facts that prove me or you wrong. Its opinions.** ---
**Author:** ![Syzygy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Syzygy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syzygy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/18 "2001-11-19T22:46:25Z")
**Yue Han** - It’s on Page 4, 3rd from the top. ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/19 "2001-11-19T23:00:09Z")
Revtim said: [quote] [quote] Originally posted by Yue Han See, this is something that pisses me off. When we talk about censorship, the response is always, “Concerned parents should choose for themselves what their kids read, instead of forcing their choices on libraries.” And that’s true. But then when some actually does decide what their kids read, they get blasted for it, too. > [@](#): > > Ignorance is to be fought, even when it isn’t forced upon people. Ignorant opinions should be challenged, even when there is no censorship issue involved. What ignorant opinions are there in what she said? She think Harry Potter has some themes that are pro-disobedience and lying. It does. You may not feel that they are serious enough to warrant her decision, but it ain’t your kid, and ‘serious enough’ isn’t the sort of thing you can cite. It’s a personal value judgement. She believes witchcraft is dangerous and evil. Now, and this is going to be a sticking point, **it is not ignorant to believe that.** Vanilla has been in discussions about paganism before. It’s not that she doesn’t know what pagans believe they’re doing in witchcraft; she thinks they’re wrong, just as they think she’s wrong about Jesus Christ being the only way to heaven. There’s a difference between ignorance and an unpopular (even possibly offensive) opinion. You cannot produce a cite to prove that Wiccans _aren’t_ unknowingly contacting evil spirits. She believes the Potter books encourage interest in witchcraft. How could you possibly know this for sure? You’d have to wait until after the fact to see if, as adults, kids who read HP got involved in Wicca. So she made a personal value judgement. It’s not the sort of thing where you can have a right/wrong answer. –John ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271/20 "2001-11-19T23:05:34Z")
seems that Lucky Charms may be the bitch after all - you definately mischaracterized Vanilla’s statements. Why not give us the full context? I see that Yue Han had to give us the link too. JFTR, I have read the Harry Potter books with my son, and I think they’re great. But please, please don’t make it sound like the end of the world for a child if they don’t get to read this particular book. I don’t agree with the choice that there is anything too dangerous about this book, but that is her choice, and based on her own criteria of what is suitable. You better check your own attitude, and lessee, exactly how many years have you been a parent? (Or out of school, for that matter). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vanilla-is-an-ignorant-bitch/94271.md?page=2)