# vaping lung damage and coronavirus **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556 "2020-02-26T15:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/21 "2020-02-27T18:01:45Z")
The Coronaviris is a contagious ‘disease’ caused by a virus. The American ‘vaping illness’ is direct damage to the lungs caused by chemical exposure. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/22 "2020-02-27T18:07:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just so we’re on the same page about coronavirus: > > From your link: > Let’s compare Doneson’s case to coronavirus. > > In June, vomiting and sweating after a workout. These are not coronavirus symptoms. Moreover, they appear to have vanished after the one incident. Again, not similar to coronavirus. > > A cough developed in July. A cough is one symptom, true, but the accompanying symptoms were not present. Coughs, of course, can have a million different causes. > > It was not until August 12 that he presented with truly serious symptoms, some of which did resemble those of coronavirus. But note the date. We’re not told when he traveled to China, just that it was June. That makes it 33 to 63 days earlier. (And his ailments progressed slowly while he was in the hospital, again not similar to severe coronavirus.) > > Of course the doctors suspected as possibilities that he might have caught something contagious in China. But nothing about his individual case resembles anything we now know about coronavirus. Not to mention that he was in China in June, a full six months before the first cases were reported. And that we now know the actual cause of his lung problems, not a virus. > > Cherrypicking a few words out a case to fit a previously-decided on disease is outright dangerous. If an actual doctor had done this, it would be malpractice. Fortunately for Doneson his actual doctors did nothing so foolish. > > Even so, internet scaremongering and conspiracy theory fanning are to be avoided at all times, and more so when a crisis hits. How is it scaremongering? Where’s the purported conspiracy? All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs. And vaping with certain additives can give you bad lungs. Why would it be dangerous for someone to stop vaping with products with vitamin E acetate as an additive? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/23 "2020-02-27T18:52:36Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs. Except that is not the case. You don’t seem to be looking at the evidence presented. There are plenty of reasons to avoid vaping, but this isn’t really one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/24 "2020-02-27T18:56:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Except that is not the case. You don’t seem to be looking at the evidence presented. There are plenty of reasons to avoid vaping, but this isn’t really one of them. What dataset are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/25 "2020-02-27T19:08:05Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What dataset are you talking about? > **[Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19)** > > WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This questions and answers page will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO... > [@](#): > > While we are still learning about how COVID-2019 affects people, older persons and persons with pre-existing medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart disease, or diabetes) appear to develop serious illness more often than others. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/26 "2020-03-03T15:38:06Z")
Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out: > **[Flu, vaping or novel coronavirus: experts suspect the US might have failed to...](https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml)** > > The US might have failed to identify illnesses of different causes, experts said considering the outbreaks of influenza and vaping-related illnesses in the country. Some have connected the cases with novel coronavirus. Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/27 "2020-03-03T17:38:19Z")
Since the Chinese government did everything possible to hide, obfuscate, and dismiss the onset and severity of the virus, I would think very long and hard about waiting to hear from a second source rather than base any conclusions on a Wuhan University professor, i.e. a government employee, quoted in what Wiki calls “a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party’s People’s Daily newspaper.” Propaganda works best when it tells people what they want to hear. They’ll stop investigating at that point. Contrarily, the whole purpose of the Dope is to tear apart the propaganda and see it for what it is. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Chris\_7\_14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Chris\_7\_14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_7_14)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/28 "2020-03-03T18:40:20Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years. > > The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets. Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency. In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years. [https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/](https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/29 "2020-03-03T19:05:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Propaganda works best when it tells people what they want to hear. They’ll stop investigating at that point. Besides the fact that article is saying that some vaping related deaths may be Coronavirus instead of the affects of vaping a tainted product (the opposite of the OP’s conjecture), here are some quotes from the actual article: > [@](#): > > “There must be a possibility,” > > The situation might exist that some pneumonia cases of unclear causes are not identified on time > > “At least, there should be further investigation and research when mysterious illness occurs.” > > Zhi, also vice president of the Chinese Association on Tobacco Control, questioned the sudden death cases of vaping, implying there might be other causes. In other words, there is no evidence at all, just guesswork. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/30 "2020-03-03T19:09:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In other words, there is no evidence at all, just guesswork. Exactly. The whole article boils down to: LOOK OVER THERE! ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/31 "2020-03-03T19:15:57Z")
> [@Chris\_7\_14](#): > > Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency. > > In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years. > > [https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/](https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/) I am not sure why you think **Turble** is in the vaping industry or why you believe he has said anything about FDA testing, because he hasn’t. All he has said about vape liquids, correctly, is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted vape liquids were black market THC vape canisters and that commercial nicotine-containing liquids were unaffected. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/32 "2020-03-03T19:19:53Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out: > [http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml) > Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery? This is delusional ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/33 "2020-03-03T19:22:38Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Maybe bad additives were in Wuhan vape products recently? It doesn’t even have to be THC, perhaps the nicotine ones. No. Because the “bad vape cartidges” were traced to people screwing around with them here in the US. There was a bust up in Kenosha, WI, for example, that involved a clandestine business manufacturing crappy THC cartridges using vitamin E acetate. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Yeah, I could be on the wrong track, but I am learning a lot. Yes, you are on the wrong track and no, you are not learning a lot. You are just doubling-down on this misbegotten conspiracy theory of yours. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Check out this: > [Journey of a Tainted Vape Cartridge: A Leafly Investigation](https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/vape-pen-injury-supply-chain-investigation-leafly) > The patient’s condition sounds like what you would expect from severe Coronavirus. Then they reveal vaping devices and additives (including vitamin E acetate) are made in China. It isn’t a stretch to imagine the factory workers were putting the various additives in the devices and trying it. First, I am NOT going to a site that makes me answer questions before showing me what you purport is “proof” of your whack-a-loon theory, especially when it asks permission to remember me for a month or more. WTF? Are you working to generate click revenue for those guys? Second, based on what other people have said, those who were willing to click through the BS, apparently no, the patient’s condition is NOT what you’d expect from the covid-19 virus. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Severe pneumonia developing over weeks sounds like the Coronavirus to me. That’s not how it works. The “severe pneumonia” tends to develop very rapidly but go right ahead with your confirmation bias if it makes you happy. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > And in the article it is revealed the CDC thought what he had was contagious: ANY time someone shows up with an undiagnosed, severe illness without obvious cause “Is this contagious?” is always a question that comes up and must be answered one way or another. Seriously, dude, when I was hospitalized in 2005 with norovirus I was subjected to a fair number of quarantine measures. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Well the article said he had a fever and cough. It did not say shortness of breath, but he had pneumonia, so he probably did and it was just not mentioned in the article. The severe cases of Coronavirus are said to result in pneumonia all over the news. OK, you read something about someone having “fever and a cough” and extrapolated that to OMG IT’S THE 2020 PLAGUE!!! Chill, dude, you’re acting ridiculous. > [@Turble](#): > > The Coronaviris is a contagious ‘disease’ caused by a virus. > > The American ‘vaping illness’ is direct damage to the lungs caused by chemical exposure. ^ This, Mr. Peebles, THIS. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > How is it scaremongering? When you won’t let this conspiracy theory go but keep posting about it? That’s scaremongering. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > All I am saying is perhaps the virus is like a normal flu virus unless you have bad lungs. Apparently none of the actual REAL health experts and doctors are saying that so… you know, I’m going to believe medical professionals over you or some other random guy on the internet trying to dig up/distort facts to fit his pre-conceived conspiracy theory. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > And vaping with certain additives can give you bad lungs. Yes. We know that. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Why would it be dangerous for someone to stop vaping with products with vitamin E acetate as an additive? Mr. Peebles, this statement does not even make sense. Please take a deep breath, calm down, and let this go. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Now some experts are looking at vape lung as a cause for the freak out: > [http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml) > Was this the spread of my idea, or near simultaneous discovery? Or is it someone (or a few people) in China trying to deflect and confuse the issue so that this pandemic is no longer associated so strongly with China in the minds of others? Because, you know, there couldn’t possibly be such an incentive there… ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/34 "2020-03-03T19:25:45Z")
> [@Cleophus](#): > > is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted This should just be vitamin E acetate. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/35 "2020-03-03T19:31:00Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > First, I am NOT going to a site that makes me answer questions before showing me what you purport is “proof” of your whack-a-loon theory, especially when it asks permission to remember me for a month or more. WTF? Are you working to generate click revenue for those guys? While a good concern in general, in this case the website in question is a cannabis distributor and the question is simply an age gate, the same as a brewery website asking whether you are over 21. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/36 "2020-03-03T19:40:41Z")
Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that where I live cannabis is still illegal? My local authorities would view going to such a site much the same as if I contacted someone selling heroin or pimping out whores. Not that I expect those authorities to kick down my door and examine my search history, but NSFW sites should carry at least a warning and a brief description of what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/37 "2020-03-03T19:57:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that where I live cannabis is still illegal? My local authorities would view going to such a site much the same as if I contacted someone selling heroin or pimping out whores. > > Not that I expect those authorities to kick down my door and examine my search history, but NSFW sites should carry at least a warning and a brief description of what they are. I don’t believe that. I’m sorry but I just don’t. Unless you were to actually attempt purchasing there is no evidence of intent to purchase marijuana, especially because the linked page is a news article and not a store page. It’s not a crime to research marijuana sales. Even in your example of contacting someone selling heroin, a crime has not been committed, or alternately an undercover officer would not be able to arrest until you move past asking “hey, you selling?” and actually initiate a transaction by asking for the product specifically or respond to a solicitation by offering money. And lastly, cannabis is still illegal everywhere in the US, notwithstanding local laws to the contrary. Plus it is also illegal for me to purchase cannabis even by local law, seeing as I don’t have a medical marijuana certificate, so that part just falls flat for me as well. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/38 "2020-03-03T20:24:47Z")
This. We live in a free country still. Researching information is entirely legal. I cannot understand what level of paranoia would make anyone think that the local authorities would have any difficulty with that. ---
**Author:** ![Chris\_7\_14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Chris\_7\_14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_7_14)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/39 "2020-03-03T20:40:28Z")
> [@Cleophus](#): > > I am not sure why you think **Turble** is in the vaping industry or why you believe he has said anything about FDA testing, because he hasn’t. All he has said about vape liquids, correctly, is that the vitamin E6 palmitate-tainted vape liquids were black market THC vape canisters and that commercial nicotine-containing liquids were unaffected. Cleophus, Turble stated “The lung damage “epidemic” was not caused by nicotine e-cigarettes but by additives in black market THC devices. It was only in the USA; millions of vapers have been vaping e-cigs around the world for at least ten years.” “The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets.” Turble’s statement sounds to me like it’s coming from someone with a vested interest who is defending the commercially available products. My point is that we don’t know what the fuck is in any of these products, and I strongly suspect the motives of anyone who is so quick to defend the “safe” commercial products by placing all of the blame on the “black market” products. I apologize if my impression is wrong - in the meantime feel free to puff away to your hearts content - just don’t do it around me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/40 "2020-03-03T20:48:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This. We live in a free country still. Researching information is entirely legal. I cannot understand what level of paranoia would make anyone think that the local authorities would have any difficulty with that. “At will” employment. As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired. It’s crass. It’s inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others. End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556.md?page=3)