# vaping lung damage and coronavirus **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556 "2020-02-26T15:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/41 "2020-03-03T21:10:20Z")
> [@Chris\_7\_14](#): > > “The lung damage thing has nothing to do with vaping nicotine e-cigs. Just don’t buy THC from street corner sellers and flea markets.” That’s essentially what the CDC is saying, although they can’t recommend using THC. > **[Outbreak of Lung Injury Associated with the Use of E-Cigarette, or Vaping,...](https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html#cdc-recommends)** > > CDC is investigating an outbreak of e-cigarette, or vaping, product use associated lung injury (EVALI). Learn CDC’s recommendations, and the latest outbreak information. > [@](#): > > CDC and FDA recommend that people not use THC-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, products, particularly from informal sources like friends, family, or in-person or online dealers. > [@](#): > > Adults using nicotine-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, products as an alternative to cigarettes should not go back to smoking; they should weigh all available information and consider using FDA-approved smoking cessation medicationsexternal icon. If they choose to use e-cigarettes as an alternative to cigarettes, they should completely switch from cigarettes to e-cigarettes and not partake in an extended period of dual use of both products that delays quitting smoking completely. They should contact their healthcare professional if they need help quitting tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, as well as if they have concerns about EVALI. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/42 "2020-03-03T21:49:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “At will” employment. > > As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired. > > It’s crass. It’s inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others. > > End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must. You said “local authorities,” not your bosses at work. You mentioned them kicking down your door, if only to dismiss it; again, such an action cannot be associated with your work site. Certainly NSFW sites should be flagged, although it’s unclear to me whether a news page about a major news story is indeed NSFW. I’m sure various worksites would view it in different ways. To be honest I wouldn’t have flagged it either. In short, your comments were confusing if you meant work and not the government. You may have known what you meant by your words but two posters here clearly read them differently. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/43 "2020-03-03T22:48:28Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Does anyone else remember the “epidemic” of lung damage due to vaping that was in the news towards the end of last year? > [https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaping-may-be-causing-acute-lung-damage-in-teens](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaping-may-be-causing-acute-lung-damage-in-teens) > How many of the coronavirus casualties were vapers? (I read smokers are considered a higher risk, and “a lot” of Chinese males are smokers, but how about vaping?) Could the coronavirus be a “bad cold” that is particularly bad for vapers? And when did the technology to gene sequence a virus start being used to track infections? Could the panic be due to a confluence of a specific virus identification technology being newly available, and also a new type of lung damage from vaping starting to pop up? So, do you suppose those six people who died in Washington state were vapers? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/44 "2020-03-04T00:57:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “At will” employment. > > As I said - any NSFW work video should come with a warning. If someone was reading at work and clicked through to that they could indeed be fired. > > It’s crass. It’s inconsiderate. Is it the most important thing ever? No - but hey, who cares if what you do causes problems for others. > > End of tangent for me, you may continue to discuss amongst yourselves if you feel you must. You know, these days decaf doesn’t taste too bad at all, really. Give it a try and see if it helps calm you down. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/45 "2020-03-04T14:46:10Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I did a search and found absolutely nothing that correlates coronavirus and vapers. > > As Telemark noted, the [CDC](https://www.axios.com/deaths-vaping-lung-illness-b6af29af-0078-44f8-ae87-5ecfcf12b3a4.html)found that Vitamin E acetate was the primary cause of the lung disease and now that it’s been eliminated the lung disease is dropping accordingly. > > Kathleen Sebelius, former HHS Secretary, said we don’t know yet what groups coronavirus is targeting so it is conceivable that a connection may yet be made. At this point, however, there’s no good reason to do so. Sounds too much like an internet conspiracy theory. > > However, the difference between a flu and a bad cold is profound. They should never be confused. Do you really expect to see a study to have even started in the few months since Covid-19 was first diagnosed? Anything which compromises lung function puts someone at greater risk of death from Covid-19. Vaping compromises cilia cells (the very ones Covid-19 attacks) as well as alveolar macrophages which are crucial for cell damage mitigation and repair. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/46 "2020-03-04T14:55:29Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Do you really expect to see a study to have even started in the few months since Covid-19 was first diagnosed? Anything which compromises lung function puts someone at greater risk of death from Covid-19. Vaping compromises cilia cells (the very ones Covid-19 attacks) as well as alveolar macrophages which are crucial for cell damage mitigation and repair. True, but there’s plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP’s conjecture was that COVID-19 isn’t a big deal, but it’s only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false. If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don’t think there’s anything controversial about that. But that’s not the point of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/47 "2020-03-04T15:10:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I did a search and found absolutely nothing that correlates coronavirus and vapers. > > As Telemark noted, the [CDC](https://www.axios.com/deaths-vaping-lung-illness-b6af29af-0078-44f8-ae87-5ecfcf12b3a4.html)found that Vitamin E acetate was the primary cause of the lung disease and now that it’s been eliminated the lung disease is dropping accordingly. > > Kathleen Sebelius, former HHS Secretary, said we don’t know yet what groups coronavirus is targeting so it is conceivable that a connection may yet be made. At this point, however, there’s no good reason to do so. Sounds too much like an internet conspiracy theory. > > However, the difference between a flu and a bad cold is profound. They should never be confused. I see now you said Coronavirus and not Covid-19. Nevertheless, absence of evidence/evidence of absence and all that. And my point about lung function still holds. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/48 "2020-03-04T15:15:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > True, but there’s plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP’s conjecture was that COVID-19 isn’t a big deal, but it’s only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false. > > If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don’t think there’s anything controversial about that. But that’s not the point of the OP. Oh for sure. Early in his post the OP seemed to be asking if vaping could be a risk factor, but now I see in their last sentence they attempted to place far too much importance on vaping. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/49 "2020-03-04T15:18:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > True, but there’s plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP’s conjecture was that COVID-19 isn’t a big deal, but it’s only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false. > > If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don’t think there’s anything controversial about that. But that’s not the point of the OP. Oh for sure. Early in his post, the OP seemed to be asking if vaping could be a risk factor, but now I see I missed that last sentence that placed far too much importance on vaping in explaining this epidemic. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/50 "2020-03-04T16:06:18Z")
> [@Chris\_7\_14](#): > > Turble - from my research I see no evidence that vaping and e-cigarette devices are tested by the FDA or any other government agency. > > In fact, it appears that your industry has successfully delayed any FDA testing or regulation for several years. > > [https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/](https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/) I have no connection to any e-cigarette business other than as a customer. This post and your follow-ups are so bizarre you leave me speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/51 "2020-03-04T18:01:17Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > True, but there’s plenty of evidence that many of the people with severe COVID-19 cases have no connection to vaping, let alone vaping with vitamin E acetate. The OP’s conjecture was that COVID-19 isn’t a big deal, but it’s only serious when in combination with vaping related illness. This is demonstrably false. > > If you have a compromised respiratory system, or one of many other illnesses, regardless of the reason, your chance of a severe case of COVID-19 is greater. I don’t think there’s anything controversial about that. But that’s not the point of the OP. No, my conjecture is NOT “it’s only serious when in combination with a vaping related illness”. My conjecture is: it is not a monster virus, it is a run of the mill virus, and the reason a run of the mill virus caused the Chinese to freak out so dramatically, is that their population had a newly prevalent form of lung damage from vaping bad additives, just as black market vapers in the USA were noted to have by the CDC back in September 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/52 "2020-03-04T18:30:33Z")
That still doesn’t make any sense given the illness and deaths we’re seeing in other nations. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/53 "2020-03-04T18:32:07Z")
EDIT: never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/54 "2020-03-04T18:36:40Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > No, my conjecture is NOT “it’s only serious when in combination with a vaping related illness”. My conjecture is: it is not a monster virus, it is a run of the mill virus, and the reason a run of the mill virus caused the Chinese to freak out so dramatically, is that their population had a newly prevalent form of lung damage from vaping bad additives, just as black market vapers in the USA were noted to have by the CDC back in September 2019. I cannot find any evidence that China had the lung damage cases that the U.S. had. They made the suspect counterfeits, but apparently just for export. You’re basing your entire argument on your imagination. There is no known connection between vaping lung damage and coronavirus. You have not found a single cite that says that. Why do you persist in this fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/55 "2020-03-04T19:11:30Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I cannot find any evidence that China had the lung damage cases that the U.S. had. They made the suspect counterfeits, but apparently just for export. > > You’re basing your entire argument on your imagination. There is no known connection between vaping lung damage and coronavirus. You have not found a single cite that says that. Why do you persist in this fantasy? You want a cite? I posted this link before: > **[Flu, vaping or novel coronavirus: experts suspect the US might have failed to...](https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml)** > > The US might have failed to identify illnesses of different causes, experts said considering the outbreaks of influenza and vaping-related illnesses in the country. Some have connected the cases with novel coronavirus. Some lung experts in Wuhan are now thinking very similarly. Others have noted it is kind of reversed, and interpreting them as saying “Hey, USA you found the vape lung, but the coronavirus may have been there too”. But I am willing to bet the Wuhan experts also have made the same conjecture for the genesis of the “freak out” as I have though. This is because the USA did not freak out when they noticed vape lung, and by any reasonable measure there was no reason to freak out, even if the coronavirus was there back then as the final straw sending the people with vape lung to the hospital. Because if the coronavirus was circulating then, it wasn’t causing alarming pneumonia after adjusting for vape lung. And if that is true, it is just a run of the mill virus, not a monster virus. To think of it another way: if the world realizes the coronavirus is a run of the mill virus and not a monster virus, and I bet they will, the question will become: why did the Chinese freak out? I think the answer will be “vape lung”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/56 "2020-03-04T19:15:05Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > You want a cite? I posted this link before: > [http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml) > Some lung experts in Wuhan are now thinking very similarly. If you actually read the article there is no evidence for the link, just conjecture. And the people looking haven’t presented any evidence to support this. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/57 "2020-03-04T19:16:36Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > My conjecture is: it is not a monster virus, it is a run of the mill virus, and the reason a run of the mill virus caused the Chinese to freak out so dramatically, is that their population had a newly prevalent form of lung damage from vaping bad additives, just as black market vapers in the USA were noted to have by the CDC back in September 2019. Except the evidence doesn’t support that. At all. Time to move on. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/58 "2020-03-04T19:20:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > If you actually read the article there is no evidence for the link, just conjecture. And not just conjecture but deflection. To me, this article from a [state-sponsored communication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times#Editorial_stance), reads like an attempt to shift the focus away from China (and to the US). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/59 "2020-03-04T19:33:22Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > You want a cite? I posted this link before: > [http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml)… Do you have any better cites than literal Chinese government propaganda? I think we should have higher standards in GQ that actual propaganda from a country looking to CYA. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556/60 "2020-03-04T19:56:07Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > You want a cite? I posted this link before: > [http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml](http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1181292.shtml) > Some lung experts in Wuhan are now thinking very similarly. Others have noted it is kind of reversed, and interpreting them as saying “Hey, USA you found the vape lung, but the coronavirus may have been there too”. But I am willing to bet the Wuhan experts also have made the same conjecture for the genesis of the “freak out” as I have though. This is because the USA did not freak out when they noticed vape lung, and by any reasonable measure there was no reason to freak out, even if the coronavirus was there back then as the final straw sending the people with vape lung to the hospital. Because if the coronavirus was circulating then, it wasn’t causing alarming pneumonia after adjusting for vape lung. And if that is true, it is just a run of the mill virus, not a monster virus. To think of it another way: if the world realizes the coronavirus is a run of the mill virus and not a monster virus, and I bet they will, the question will become: why did the Chinese freak out? I think the answer will be “vape lung”. Sigh. More than 60 countries on every continent except Antarctica have confirmed coronavirus cases. None except the U.S. had vaping lung damage cases. Yet all around the world health officials and governments are freaking out, closing schools, shutting factories, postponing crowd events. Why? How can everybody in the world except you be deluded on a matter of literal life and death? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-lung-damage-and-coronavirus/848556.md?page=4)