# Vaping saves lives - regulation should keep that in mind **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201 "2017-10-18T07:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/182 "2019-09-12T01:11:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes and no. > > Truth is, there are NO highly effective methods for getting off any form of addiction. The success rate, even for the most effective methods, is under 20% per attempt. Which is why addicts typically need multiple attempts to quit before they finally do so for good, and why relapses are so common. > > Nictoine gum and patches are, at present, two of the more effective means to end a tobacco addiction. Their success rate, per attempt, is still under 20%. There are other methods that are _even worse_ than that. > > Treating addiction is _hard_. There are no quick and easy fixes. Well, I personally immediately stopped cigarettes with vaping. I know it’s not harmless and that I’m still addicted to nicotine but I feel a lot better and I’m pretty confident I’ve lowered some long term risks. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/183 "2019-09-12T01:37:31Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Zoinks this thread did not age well. Smoking [will do that](https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/ss/slideshow-ways-smoking-affects-looks). Vaping - who knows? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/184 "2019-09-12T02:36:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I personally immediately stopped cigarettes with vaping. I know it’s not harmless and that I’m still addicted to nicotine but I feel a lot better and I’m pretty confident I’ve lowered some long term risks. Conga-rats! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/185 "2019-09-12T08:22:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I personally immediately stopped cigarettes with vaping. I know it’s not harmless and that I’m still addicted to nicotine but I feel a lot better and I’m pretty confident I’ve lowered some long term risks. Because curing addiction is so damn hard I’m all for harm reduction. I’m not entirely convinced vaping is _that_ much safer, but I’ll admit I haven’t put much study into it, either. It does seem to reduce (although not entirely eliminate) the second hand effects on non-users and that is definitely a win. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/186 "2019-09-12T14:36:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because curing addiction is so damn hard I’m all for harm reduction. I’m not entirely convinced vaping is _that_ much safer, but I’ll admit I haven’t put much study into it, either. It does seem to reduce (although not entirely eliminate) the second hand effects on non-users and that is definitely a win. Quite a few of us are for harms reduction. Some of us are particularly concerned with net harms reduction. There is the potential of the harms reduction you listed above on the one side. And there is a potential increased harms of the wide easy availability of current product lines resulting in a huge number of NEW nicotine addicts in a generation that had been decreasing that dramatically with some still to determined but real health risks both from the products directly and from increased risk of smoking products as well. The goal is a max-min question. Where do we draw the lines given what data we have, and which direction lays more burden of proof? To completely ignore either the potential of benefits (over other methods) or the potential of harms is not ideal. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/187 "2019-09-27T20:12:37Z")
I’ve been busy, but I need to address this. > [@DSeid](#): > > **k9bfriender** obviously we get into IMHO and anecdotes here but my belief is that your position is a very ignorant one. My belief is that you are very ignorant as to my position, as based on the rest of your post. I was saying that it is not the flavors that draw kids in, but rather the actual drug itself. I was “corrected” and told that it was actually peer pressure, and I acknowledged that peer pressure is a part of it, but that that did not detract from my point that it is not the flavors that is the primary cause of teen vaping. > [@](#): > > Did you really take your first drink/toke/smoke/whatever to get fucked up? Nah. It was a social thing which then hooks some because of both the some perceived positive of the experience (inclusive of the buzz, but not necessarily only that, _flavor etc can be part of that as well_, and the ongoing social reinforcement of being part of a group, having a group activity/shared interest, having a prop, and so on), and for some after some time because of a dependency that morphs into an addiction, in which the positive is no longer the drive but the avoidance of the negative of withdrawal. The first time I took a hit off a cig was actually to relax. I saw how people would take a drag and that they would visibly relax, and I wanted that, as I was _not_ relaxed as a kid. Quite a bit you just said there, and you had to shoe in the part about flavor. The first time I drank though, that was actually to “get fucked up”, same with weed. > [@](#): > > To say that flavors that appeal are not part of that is as unto saying that taste of food doesn’t impact overeating because people eat out of hunger, or that there would be as much alcohol consumption if the only form of it was Malort. Obesity is a worse problem than smoking. It kills nearly as many, and while both of them have decades of lag between change in behavior and a noticeable change in morbidity, obesity is on its way up and smoking is on its way down. In not too many years, obesity will overtake tobacco as a killer, and it will keep going. Do you suggest we ban flavored food? People like their alcohol, if the only form of it was Malort, then sure, alcohol consumption would go down, but not be as much as you seem to be thinking. I’d be surprised if consumption went down by more than 5%. > [@](#): > > Hell drinking _is_ the same way. How many drink, as kids or as adults, primarily to get fucked up/alter their mental state? Not most. Many many more drink with the main focus being the social activity and the impact on mental state in service of that social activity, as a lubricant of sorts. Getting shit-faced is not the goal for most even if a slight buzz is enjoyed by many as part of the process. You’ve never met a college student, have you? > [@](#): > > Kids are not choosing to the most powerful fuck-you-up substances and getting them no matter what. Not too many High Schoolers are dropping acid right now. By your way of thinking, why not? By my way of thinking is not that people dive head first into anything that they express any interest in. The only way this question makes any sense is if you uncontrollably binge on any substance that you find interesting. Do you? And I don’t know what you mean exactly by “not too many” are dropping acid right now. How many do you consider to be too many? When I was in high school\*, I knew quite a few, and having nieces and nephews in high school, I am aware that it is still pretty prevalent. Not a huge percent, but certainly present, and in the minds of many school parents, it is “too many.” > [@](#): > > There has been a nearly [two decade decline](https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/underage-drinking-statistics) in teen alcohol use rates, including over the same last five year time period that teen vaping has exploded. How does that mesh with your thinking that they’ll try whatever something someone has that they haven’t tried before? By the fact that I never said that they’ll try whatever something someone has that they haven’t tried before. :rolleyes: Nicotine is highly addictive and pleasurable and desirable. That is why people consume it. That is why people set leaves on fire and inhale nastiness into their lungs that they know will probably kill them. That’s why their houses and clothes smells like shit. Those are the trade offs that they (and I ) are willing to make in order to have our drug of choice. If you ban flavors, then we’ll go to unflavored or back to cigarettes, but that’s stupid, it would be like trying to curb underage drinking by banning all forms of alcohol other than Malort. If you ban vaping, or make it hard or unpleasant to get, then we’ll probably just go back to smoking. Now, you want to ban flavors in prepackaged Juuls and the like, I see no problem with that. You even want to ban pre mixed nicotine juice with flavor, I can accept that, even though I do not see the utility of it. You want to out and out ban flavors, and you are going to find people using food flavoring as a flavoring agent, and making themselves sick. You are going to find people dropping the vape in favor of going back to smoking. There will be absolutely no positive that comes from it, but quite a few negatives. \*and just so that you don’t think that my high school is some sort of backwater or shit hole, I will mention that I went to high school with the daughter of a very prominent (though now retired) Republican US congressman. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/188 "2019-09-27T22:38:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > When was the last day you breathed nothing but air, do you think? I have no doubt that there is some health effects from vaping and I really don’t understand why anyone would think otherwise. What I don’t see is that it’s worse than smoking, alcohol or a liter of Pepsi a day. That doesn’t invalidate his point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/189 "2019-09-27T23:17:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … > > The first time I took a hit off a cig was actually to relax. I saw how people would take a drag and that they would visibly relax, and I wanted that, as I was _not_ relaxed as a kid… > > Obesity is a worse problem than smoking. It kills nearly as many, and while both of them have decades of lag between change in behavior and a noticeable change in morbidity, obesity is on its way up and smoking is on its way down. In not too many years, obesity will overtake tobacco as a killer, and it will keep going. Do you suggest we ban flavored food? > … > Nicotine is highly addictive and pleasurable and desirable. That is why people consume it. That is why people set leaves on fire and inhale nastiness into their lungs that they know will probably kill them. That’s why their houses and clothes smells like shit. Those are the trade offs that they (and I ) are willing to make in order to have our drug of choice. > … Actually, overall, smoking increases stress, just that brief period when you get that drug fix you relax. Second hand smoke kills 50000 Americans a year, mostly kids and the elderly- yep parent killing their kids and Nana in the spare room. Very, very few deaths from second hand cheeseburgers. 😛 Yep, and it is harder to quit than heroin. Which is why i support vaping, even tho i dont like it. I dont think I now have any friends at all who smoke, those who did have quit tobacco and switched to vaping. I have read some not quite tinfoil hat theories that Big Tobacco is helping push this attack on vaping- vaping has been too damn effective for smokers who want to quit. I believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/190 "2019-09-27T23:49:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have read some not quite tinfoil hat theories that Big Tobacco is helping push this attack on vaping- vaping has been too damn effective for smokers who want to quit. I believe it. Oh please - news of vaping-associated lung injury and the push for effective regulations on vaping products are terrible news for Big Tobacco, because (as already pointed out), big tobacco enterprises have invested heavily in vaping. Altria (parent company of Philip Morris) owns 35% of Juul, the big player in the vaping market. An R.J. Reynolds subsidiary owns the #2 vaping company, Vuse. I can envision a lot of chuckling in tobacco company boardrooms\* at the prospect of keeping nicotine addicts on board (and recruiting a bunch of new ones) through company investments in vaping. \*at least, until the recent push for regulation and the news of serious vaping-associated lung injuries and deaths. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you ban vaping, or make it hard or unpleasant to get, then we’ll probably just go back to smoking. Bravo. That’ll show us! :dubious: I was disgusted the other day to see a local vape shop prominently advertising in their window the availability of CBD products, including stuff intended to be vaped. Now _there’s_ a responsible business that won’t let widespread outbreaks of lung disease and death (largely involving cannabinoid products) affect its bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/191 "2019-09-28T02:20:14Z")
The [CDC issues a preliminary report](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6839e1.htm?s_cid=mm6839e1_e&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM9775) on the outbreak which currently stands at over 800 cases in 46 states including 12 deaths. Nothing new in the report, really, but it’s filled with statistics and charts if you like that sort of thing. > [@](#): > > Summary > > What is already known about this topic? > > Lung injury associated with e-cigarette use, or vaping, has recently been reported in most states. CDC, the Food and Drug Administration, and others are investigating this outbreak. > > What is added by this report? > > Among 805 cases reported as of September 24, 2019, 69% were in males; 62% of patients were aged 18–34 years. Among patients with data on substances used in e-cigarettes, or vaping products, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)-containing product use was reported by 76.9% (36.0% reported exclusive THC-product use); 56.8% reported nicotine-containing product use (16.0% reported exclusive nicotine-product use). > > What are the implications for public health practice? > > The cause of the outbreak is unknown. While this investigation is ongoing, CDC recommends that persons consider refraining from using e-cigarette, or vaping, products, particularly those containing THC. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/192 "2019-09-28T02:30:17Z")
The investigation of the illness outbreak is focusing on blackmarket additives. [Washington Post Article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/potential-culprits-in-mystery-lung-illnesses-black-market-vaping-products/2019/09/24/cb5b708e-d98d-11e9-ac63-3016711543fe_story.html) > [@](#): > > . . . > > Interviews with more than a dozen business people in both the legal and illicit cannabis markets, as well as officials and clinicians, point to recent changes in the ingredients used in popular marijuana vaping devices that could be making people sick. They say black market operators are using more thickening agents to dilute THC oil because of a crackdown by [CA] state authorities that has made the oil scarcer on the black market. THC oil is used to fill tiny disposable containers known as vape cartridges, which are heated to create inhalable vapor. Vaping cartridges are among the most popular items in the legal and illicit markets, industry analysts said. > > . . . > > Recreational marijuana use is legal and regulated in California. In recent months, tighter restrictions have made THC oil increasingly scarce on the black market, industry experts said. THC oil can cost between $5,000 and $7,000 per kilogram for a high-purity product, according to experts. It is thick, colorless and odorless. > > To stretch that supply, “a lot of producers who are using thickeners in their mixtures, they’re buying this stuff because it creates the visual appeal of a very thick oil” that looks like THC oil, said Peter Hackett, owner and operator of Air Vapor Systems, a company based in the San Francisco area that provides vape hardware and supplies to the legal market. > AD > > One thickening agent that is a key focus of investigators is vitamin E oil, known as vitamin E acetate. It is also colorless and odorless, has similar viscosity to THC oil, and is much cheaper. > > The sign of THC purity on the black market is oil thickness, Hackett said. > > “It’s a way to fool or trick a customer into buying a bad product,” he said. And here is a [Leafly article](https://www.leafly.com/news/health/some-vape-cart-additive-makers-pull-products-others-go-dark) from the cannabis community ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/193 "2019-09-28T18:22:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, overall, smoking increases stress, just that brief period when you get that drug fix you relax. Does that matter to hyper anxious 13 year old me? > [@](#): > > Second hand smoke kills 50000 Americans a year, mostly kids and the elderly- yep parent killing their kids and Nana in the spare room. We don’t smoke in enclosed public places anymore, I think that number is going to start coming down rather rapidly rather soon. If we want to pass laws that disallow smoking around minors or non-consenting adults, I have no problem with that. > [@](#): > > Very, very few deaths from second hand cheeseburgers. 😛 Quite a few and growing from first hand though. Smokers tended to have children who smoked. Obese people tend to have children that are obese. > [@](#): > > Yep, and it is harder to quit than heroin. Which is why i support vaping, even tho i dont like it. I dont think I now have any friends at all who smoke, those who did have quit tobacco and switched to vaping. Most of my friends have turned to vaping. There’s a few hold-outs, but we keep trying new blends and flavors on them to see if we can get the to switch. Well, unless they ban flavors, of course. > [@](#): > > I have read some not quite tinfoil hat theories that Big Tobacco is helping push this attack on vaping- vaping has been too damn effective for smokers who want to quit. I believe it. I’m sure there are many entrenched interests on both sides of the issue. I’ll leave the tin foil on the roll for now though. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Bravo. That’ll show us! :dubious: The problem that you may be having with this debate is that you for some odd reason think it’s about you. :dubious: I wouldn’t switch back to cigarettes to “show you”, I don’t care about you. I would switch back because that would be the form of nicotine delivery that you haven’t banned. The only way that you figure into it is in you working towards restricting my actions. > [@](#): > > I was disgusted the other day to see a local vape shop prominently advertising in their window the availability of CBD products, including stuff intended to be vaped. Now _there’s_ a responsible business that won’t let widespread outbreaks of lung disease and death (largely involving cannabinoid products) affect its bottom line. Is it the CBD oil part that bothers you? I have mixed feelings about CBD, but it’s pretty mainstream now. It is sold everywhere, even at pharmacies. If stuff is intended to be vaped, and is safe to be vaped, then I don’t see why you care. If it is not safe to be vaped, then it should be, that is the role of regulation in this scenario. If people are using improper products to vape CBD or even THC, and getting themselves sick or dead for it, then how would it be an irresponsible business that is offering the proper products to vape these substances with? Sounds to me that they are stepping up and filling a public safety need that is not being filled by the regulators that you want to come in to crush the industry with. I mean, there are probably a number of things that will cause immediate and serious illness if run through a vape, and it is better that people get products that are made for such things than come up with “bright” ideas on their own. I can see someone just putting CBD or hemp oil in a vape and thinking that that is a great idea. I can see drug dealers making THC oils that are not high quality or even made of the right stuff. Banning this stuff will not stop people and black market entities from creating and doing it, it will just make sure that there are no controls or regulations over the products. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/194 "2019-09-28T19:32:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Oh please - news of vaping-associated lung injury and the push for effective regulations on vaping products are terrible news for Big Tobacco, because (as already pointed out), big tobacco enterprises have invested heavily in vaping. > … Altho that is true, their main product is still death sticks, and they will do _anything_ to get people addicted to them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/195 "2019-09-28T19:35:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We don’t smoke in enclosed public places anymore, I think that number is going to start coming down rather rapidly rather soon. > … Publics spaces, but it’s the smoking in the home that kills the kids and elderly. Smokers murder 50000 non-smokers a year, most members of their own family. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/196 "2019-09-28T19:45:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Publics spaces, but it’s the smoking in the home that kills the kids and elderly. > > Smokers murder 50000 non-smokers a year, most members of their own family. And my point is that 50000 is not a static number, but a number that will likely be going down. It used to be that if you worked in an office, you worked next to a a smoker, and you could get second hand smoke from that. If you were in an airplane, or a bus, or even a hospital, you were subject to second hand smoke. Parents are also more cognizant of the dangers of second hand smoke, and shamed by friends neighbors and everyone else about it. All the smoking and/or vaping parents that I know do not smoke or vape in the house. My point is that the laws and the practices have changed, and you will see a result of that, you just won’t see it for a while, as it is a while between exposure to smoke and health effects from it. Most people dying now from second hand smoke were exposed in the 80’s or early 90’s at the latest. Blaming the current generation for that is not only more than a bit unfair, it is entirely unproductive. I also pointed out that I would be supportive of laws that would forbid smoking around minors and non-consenting adults. I do think that second hand “vape” is also going to be far less harmful than that out of a cigarette. So, I’m not sure why you feel the need to keep repeating this statistic as if it actually means anything relevant to the topic at hand, which is currently whether or not flavoring for nicotine juice should be banned. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/197 "2019-09-28T22:23:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I was disgusted the other day to see a local vape shop prominently advertising in their window the availability of CBD products, including stuff intended to be vaped. Now _there’s_ a responsible business that won’t let widespread outbreaks of lung disease and death (largely involving cannabinoid products) affect its bottom line. Pffft. I’m sure you were equally outraged when you saw a grocery store selling Iceberg lettuce during the last Romaine scare. You are rather shamelessly using this black market adulterated cartridge problem to smear the whole concept of vaping. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/198 "2019-09-29T01:53:37Z")
A long time ago I was a pack a day cigarette smoker. Or sometimes two. I did kick it. Then, I fell off the wagon and started smoking cigars. I inhaled them. It’s sort of a cute story. I was in Mexico, at a liquor store. The proprietor was very nice and helped find what we where looking for. I insisted on him keeping the change (a few pesos) and he insisted on throwing a few cigars into the bag. What’s a few cigars gonna hurt? Heck, I’m on vacation! Got hooked again, big time. Vaping got me off of those, and I am cutting back on the amount of nicotine in them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/199 "2019-09-29T14:37:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The problem that you may be having with this debate is that you for some odd reason think it’s about you. No, not at all. What’s truly odd is that anyone who was hooked on cigarettes and then switched to being hooked on nicotine vaping would defiantly announce that they’d likely switch back to cigarettes if denied flavored nicotine vapes. Apparently that’s supposed to make the rest of society throw up its hands in horror and say “Oh NO! Please don’t do that! Look, here are some lovely watermelon and bubblegum-flavored nicotine vapes!! Come back, please!!!” :dubious: It doesn’t make a whopping difference to me if nicotine addicts seek to self-destruct faster out of pique.\* I just don’t want to see the vaping industry and its Big Tobacco affiliates create a whole new generation of nicotine addicts by using flavors and deceptive advertising to entice them. > [@](#): > > Is it the CBD oil part that bothers you? Given that we don’t know yet exactly what constituents of vaping medium are causing serious acute lung illness (not to mention the specter of slow-developing irreversible chronic lung disorders), it strikes me as hugely irresponsible at this time to be encouraging the sale of CBD vape products. \*although as previously noted, smoking has been very very good to me as a pathologist (diagnosing various smoking-related cancers has probably represented a minimum of 10% of my income over the years). I mildly regret not having trained for a subspecialty in pulmonary pathology, as I anticipate that vaping will help make that a booming field in the future. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/200 "2019-09-29T15:30:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > .Given that we don’t know yet exactly what constituents of vaping medium are causing serious acute lung illness (not to mention the specter of slow-developing irreversible chronic lung disorders), it strikes me as hugely irresponsible at this time to be encouraging the sale of CBD vape products. Bullshit. You thought it was irresponsible to sell that before this outbreak and you know perfectly well that the cause of this outbreak can’t be the traditional vape ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201/201 "2019-09-30T01:40:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Bullshit. You thought it was irresponsible to sell that before this outbreak Are you now a mindreader? I’ve never said any such thing. > [@](#): > > and you know perfectly well that the cause of this outbreak can’t be the traditional vape ingredients. Except that some victims of serious lung disease reported vaping only nicotine, and there’s been no scientific vindication of “traditional vape ingredients”.\* \*to the contrary, there’s evidence of harm. For instance: > [@Surgeon General](#): > > Besides nicotine, e-cigarettes can contain harmful and potentially harmful ingredients, including: > > ultrafine particles that can be inhaled deep into the lungs > flavorants such as diacetyl, a chemical linked to serious lung disease > volatile organic compounds > heavy metals, such as nickel, tin, and lead > **[Know the Risks: E-cigarettes & Young People | U.S. Surgeon General’s Report](https://e-cigarettes.surgeongeneral.gov)** > > E-cigarettes and youth don't mix. It's time to get the science-based facts from the U.S. Surgeon General. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaping-saves-lives-regulation-should-keep-that-in-mind/799201.md?page=11)