# Vaporizing Saddam: mistake? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267 "2003-04-08T08:07:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/1 "2003-04-08T08:07:55Z")
Current reports are that the bunker he was in is now “dust.” I suggest that this is a very, very poor outcome for the US. There was no coherent Iraqi military organization left anyway, and now this threatens some of the long-term goals. To wit: The Iraqi people are still scared of this dude, and without a prisoner or a corpse, its likely many of them may, for awhile, struggle to believe that it’s really over and move on. More importantly, we now go through months (years?) of fevered speculation that Saddama bin Laden is hiding in (Iraq, Iran, Syria, Paraguay, whatever). I guess we’ll hear if DNA can tell us something from the ruins; but the pan-arab, jihad-versus-satan nuts won’t believe that anyway, and rather than disillusioning/dispiriting them, the myth of the escape will encourage them. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/2 "2003-04-08T08:19:50Z")
We can just kill one of his doubles and parade the corpse around. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/3 "2003-04-08T12:38:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I suggest that this is a very, very poor outcome for the US. There was no coherent Iraqi military organization left anyway, and now this threatens some of the long-term goals. To wit: Who cares, though? People still say Elvis is alive! What matters is that his support base is finished. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/4 "2003-04-08T12:41:01Z")
Well, there is the first rule of survival in a Call of Cthulhu campaign: if you don’t have the body, it’s not dead. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/5 "2003-04-08T13:23:26Z")
Yup. Amazing–useful insights from the world of RPG. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/6 "2003-04-08T13:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Who cares, though? People still say Elvis is alive! What matters is that his support base is finished. \*\* Elvis will rule Iraq! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/7 "2003-04-08T14:13:21Z")
Why don’t we try and capture him, and then put him on trial in the Hague? Like the Nuremberg trials, or when they put Milosevic on trial? ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/8 "2003-04-08T15:04:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furt \* > \*\*I guess we’ll hear if DNA can tell us something from the ruins; but the pan-arab, jihad-versus-satan nuts won’t believe that anyway, and rather than disillusioning/dispiriting them, the myth of the escape will encourage them. \*\* There’s no reason to believe in any supposed DNA evidence, because according to reports that I’ve heard, from multiple sources, the U.S. has no DNA record for Hussein. No DNA record = nothing to compare against = no way to confirm a kill on Hussein. Even if we “parade a body around,” we can’t claim to be sure that it’s him. **Ethrilist** , in Call of Cthulhu, isn’t it true that sometimes it’s not dead _even if you have the body_? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/9 "2003-04-08T15:31:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Why don’t we try and capture him, and then put him on trial in the Hague? Like the Nuremberg trials, or when they put Milosevic on trial? \*\* A trial like that would be _very_ amusing. Unless the proceedings were tightly controlled, old Saddam would get to rehash the whole legal basis for the invasion. And if it were tightly controlled, the international court would be seen by many as an illegitimate pawn to American adventurism. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/10 "2003-04-08T15:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > **the U.S. has no DNA record for Hussein.** But we have _shovels_. Dig up his mother, and you have enough genetic tags for proof. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/11 "2003-04-08T15:36:46Z")
What I want to understand is Why they went through the trouble of bombing the bunker in the residential area if The US is saying “Saddam doesn’t matter”? So they Killed four families with overkill weapons to take out an irrelevant person? Hmmmm. You can’t have it both ways guys just admit you need to kill him and he is important or else you are going to turn more Iraqis sour on their liberation. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Rame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Mac\_Rame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Rame)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/12 "2003-04-08T15:45:17Z")
While it would be ideal to have the body, it isn’t necessary. The reconstruction of Germany went fine without Hitler’s lifeless corpse. With regards to the DNA, **NurseCarmen** has it right on. See [this article](http://www.thisislondon.com/news/waroniraq/articles/4236308?source=Evening%20Standard) wherein it states: > [@](#): > > These will go to UK and US laboratories and should provide identification, though the process could take weeks. > > In both cases, experts need matching material from relatives but Saddam’s Tikriti clan has had several defectors so finding someone to provide “family” samples may not be too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/13 "2003-04-08T16:07:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NurseCarmen \* > \*\*But we have _shovels_. Dig up his mother, and you have enough genetic tags for proof. \*\* Who needs shovels? Given what most people think of Hussein, I figured we’d have him pegged for keeping her body in a cellar somewhere, sitting in her favorite chair, wearing her favorite dress. _Norman…?_ ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/14 "2003-04-08T17:08:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Why don’t we try and capture him, and then put him on trial in the Hague? Like the Nuremberg trials, or when they put Milosevic on trial? \*\* Even if Saddem is alive and eventually captured, it ain’t gonna happen: 1. This is not a UN-approved war. The UN is playing no role in the war. 2. The International Court in the Hague is a UN court. See #1 above. 3. While the USA is a signatory country to the International Court because it is a member of the UN, the USA does not recognize Court decisions unless it wants to do so, and it is in the interest of the USA to do so. 4. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld would never support it. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/15 "2003-04-08T17:23:32Z")
Let’s face it, Saddam Hussein is never going to be properly “dead”, any more than Hitler was or Osama will be. Whatever evidence is found, whatever DNA tests are carried out, there will remain strong pockets of belief that he is alive, and pockets of support for him, and doubtless neo-Baath movements just as we have neo-Nazi movements. So for me his life/death is not particularly relevant. He will be back, in some form, just as Hitler is alive and well today, symbolically, in the form of neo-Nazi jackbooted thugs in various western nations. Rumour and conspiracy theory is a very strong force in this part of the world (and indeed in many parts of the world). People believe what they are told by their peers (and Arab peers are other Arabs, not the US) or they believe what they want to believe. So it is not about how or whether one should “vapourise” Saddam, but how one should vapourise his legacy, his image, his memory. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/16 "2003-04-08T17:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > **Ethrilist** , in Call of Cthulhu, isn’t it true that sometimes it’s not dead _even if you have the body_? 😉 Well, yeah, but at least it’s a good start… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/17 "2003-04-08T18:56:38Z")
For what it’s worth: > [@](#): > > Iraq latest: At-a-glance > BBC News > > Tuesday, 8 April > > 1650: UK security sources tell the BBC that they do not believe Saddam Hussein is dead. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle\_east/2927125.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2927125.stm) curiouser and curiouser… ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/18 "2003-04-08T22:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\*Well, there is the first rule of survival in a Call of Cthulhu campaign: if you don’t have the body, it’s not dead. \*\* You forgot about the empting a couple magazines into the corpse, dousing it with gasoline, and setting it on fire. 😃 Without Saddam’s body, I don’t think it will cause anymore trouble than a couple wacko neo-Baathist parties running around in a couple years, annoying but containable. And even with his body, you would still have nutcases like him going around anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/19 "2003-04-09T06:04:26Z")
Anyway, if he was captured there’s no way we’d turn him over to the UN or the ICC for a trial. They’d probably pin a medal on him. No, what we’ll do is turn him over to our new puppet Iraqi government. They don’t have to try him for war crimes. They can just put him on trial for the thousands of murders he’s commited over the decades of his rule over Iraq. No need to get fancy, the Iraqis will figure out what to do with him. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267/20 "2003-04-09T07:20:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*We can just kill one of his doubles and parade the corpse around. \*\* That has to be the first intelligent thing I’ve read from you, Brutus. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vaporizing-saddam-mistake/167267.md?page=2)