# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/242 "2023-09-20T19:19:57Z")
“Not regularly given” is like “high crimes and misdemeanors” in impeachments — it’s whatever Congress can agree meets the definition. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/243 "2023-10-13T12:21:07Z")
Update on the effort of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington to keep DJT off the ballot in Colorado: > **[Colorado judge strikes down Trump's attempt to toss a lawsuit seeking to bar...](https://news.yahoo.com/colorado-judge-strikes-down-trumps-235029053.html)** > > A Colorado judge has rejected an attempt by former President Donald Trump to dismiss a lawsuit that seeks to keep him off the state ballot, ruling that his objections on free-speech grounds did not apply. Trump’s attorneys argued that a Colorado law... > [@](#): > > A Colorado judge has rejected an attempt by former President Donald Trump to dismiss a lawsuit that seeks to keep him off the state ballot, ruling that his objections on free-speech grounds did not apply. > > Trump’s attorneys argued that a Colorado law protecting people from being sued over exercising their free speech rights shielded him from the lawsuit, but Colorado District Judge Sarah Wallace said that law doesn’t apply in this case. > > The law also conflicted with a state requirement to get the question about Trump’s eligibility resolved quickly — before a Jan. 5 deadline for presidential candidates’ names to certified for the Colorado primary, Wallace wrote. Ssssssssmack! ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/244 "2023-10-13T15:38:14Z")
Love it! I think of citizen trump, in the past, using the courts to destroy people by tying them up in expensive lawsuits until they gave up and let him have his way. Now HE’S the one on the receiving end, harried from pillar to post with unending hearings and depositions and lawyers fees and strategy meetings… And he brought it all on himself. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving piece of offal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/245 "2023-10-13T15:56:42Z")
Another aspect of that case is that Trump’s lawyers say he has no obligation to “support” the Constitution, which is the word used in s. 3 of the 14th Amendment. He only swore to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution”. So the 14th Amendment prohibition on committing insurrection doesn’t bar him from office. > **[Donald Trump tells court he had no duty to ‘support’ the US Constitution](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-court-had-no-220216709.html)** > > ‘The Presidential oath, which the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment surely knew, requires the President to swear to ‘preserve, protect and defend’ the Constitution — not to ‘support’ the Constitution,’ read a filing from the former president’s... ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/246 "2023-10-13T20:18:56Z")
while i do enjoy a good technicality or loophole, i don’t believe this is either of those. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/247 "2023-10-13T22:32:06Z")
Options considered by Trump’s legal team include: I have to nurture the Constitution, but not mollify it. I have to venerate the Constitution, but not mollycoddle it. I have to revere the Constitution, but not contemplate it. I have to bury the Constitution, but not praise it. I have to animate the Constitution, but not embolden it. I have to imagine the Constitution, but not abjure it. I have to assimilate the Constitution, but not abrogate it. I have to expiate the Constitution, but not placate it. I have to refract the Constitution but not mangle it. I have to obfuscate the Constitution, but not patinate it. I’m actually a bit surprised they chose as they did. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/248 "2023-10-13T22:44:07Z")
😀😃😄😅😁 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/249 "2023-10-22T00:24:11Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Update on the effort of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington to keep DJT off the ballot in Colorado: Not sure if CNN is just getting caught up on the news or if there have been more developments, but of particular note is the mention that other states are pursuing similar measures: > The flurry of rulings late Friday from Colorado District Judge Sarah Wallace are a blow to Trump, who faces candidacy challenges in multiple states stemming from his role in the January 6, 2021, insurrection. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/politics/colorado-lawsuit-trump-ballot/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/politics/colorado-lawsuit-trump-ballot/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/250 "2023-10-22T16:07:10Z")
The trial is looming, oct. 30th, that should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/251 "2023-10-22T16:15:03Z")
Thanks for posting this article. I found this passage interesting: > [Judge] Wallace also cited a [2012 opinion](https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/sites/ca10/files/opinions/01018907241.pdf) from **Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch** , when he was a Denver-based appeals judge, which **said states have the power to “exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office.”** She cited this while rejecting Trump’s claim that Colorado’s ballot access laws don’t give state officials any authority to disqualify him based on federal constitutional considerations. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/252 "2023-10-22T19:26:15Z")
On the less encouraging side of things, Colorado isn’t likely to be much help to Trump anyway – Biden won it by a 13.5% margin. Other states that may deem Trump unfit for office are also likely to all be blue states. One may recall that down in Georgia Republicans were raining hell and damnation upon Fanni Willis for daring to prosecute Dear Leader. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/253 "2023-10-23T14:20:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > On the less encouraging side of things, Colorado isn’t likely to be much help to Trump anyway – There’s always just the fact that _someone_ succeeded that gives others the impetus to try as well. If Colorado is successful, more states may think about kicking him off their ballots, too. And, of course, it provides a case that could be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court which would give a definitive, nationwide answer to the question of “Is trump disqualified from holding office?” Whether or not we like the answer, it would be good for everyone to be on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/254 "2023-10-23T15:55:40Z")
Colorado isn’t likely to be much help to Trump, certainly, but how will Trump’s absence from the ballot affect down-ballot races? If Republicans are less likely to vote because “no Trump”, I would say Boebert is in deep trouble, and maybe a couple of others. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/255 "2023-10-23T16:22:27Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I would say Boebert is in deep trouble, and maybe a couple of others. Boebert barely squeaked by last time, and there’s been a lot of embarrassment since. And the Dem’s got a war chest this time. It’s gonna be bye bye Boo Boo. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/256 "2023-10-27T15:49:53Z")
And a WaPo article on the two cases that are considering the issue, the Colorado case and one in Minnesota. Apparently there are cases in other states, but the groups which are pushing this argument chose to go first in Colorado and Minnesota because those laws have relatively broad provisions for citizens to challenge ballot inclusion. The Colorado case is set for five days of hearings. > **[Hearings begin as Trump critics attempt to kick him off ballots](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/27/trump-14th-amendment-colorado-minnesota/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjk4Mzc5MjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjk5NzY1MTk5LCJpYXQiOjE2OTgzNzkyMDAsImp0aSI6IjY0ZDM2ZDUzLWRkNGItNGE3ZS05ZWIwLWM1YjAyNmM4NzE5YSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9wb2xpdGljcy8yMDIzLzEwLzI3L3RydW1wLTE0dGgtYW1lbmRtZW50LWNvbG9yYWRvLW1pbm5lc290YS8ifQ.HWnvFhtm1PL5Ysgj240VHpzxRtKjOqVkvlpRp_wTxPE&itid=gfta)** > > Lawsuits in Colorado and Minnesota center on the 14th Amendment, which bars those who engage in an insurrection from running for office. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/257 "2023-10-27T17:48:52Z")
To be fair to Trump, even if he doesn’t deserve mercy, pity or sympathy, I feel that while it’s a good idea to bring up the issue, the language of the 14th is simply too broad, and the scope of Trump’s actions (pending more information from Georgia and the DOJ that is) too imprecise to qualify. But I think it’s a GREAT idea to put Trump and CO in court and defend their actions. Yes, it probably won’t budge the needle electorally, but Trump seems unspeakably (heh) gifted at incriminating himself after the fact by volunteering information in court or on social media that probably makes his lawyers eat antacids by the bucket. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/258 "2023-10-28T13:07:29Z")
Deleted ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/259 "2023-10-30T18:37:05Z")
The WAPO article links to an Oct 3, 2023 paper entitled “The Meaning and Ambiguity of the Fourteenth Amendment”. It is not a hatchet job, though Trump’s lawyers should find it very useful. The author relies heavily on the historic record, but doesn’t consider that commentators tend to focus more on present circumstance than lurid speculations about the future that could make them look foolish. Nor does he discuss implicit principles of parsimony. IOW he does a poor job of setting the historical context or the context faced by anyone in the shoes of these historic figures. Disappointing. I am persuaded though, that Section 3 of the 14th amendment is not self-executing: it requires some sort of tribunal. So IMHO secretaries of state properly kick this issue over to the courts. Common sense states that somebody needs to make a finding of fact. What I’m not clear on is whether it would be sufficient for an official to make such a finding of fact, provided it was subject to appeal to the court system. Paper: > **[The Meaning and Ambiguity of Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4591838)** > > Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment disqualified anyone from serving in the House or Senate, or as a presidential elector, if they had betrayed their oath I’ll reproduce the Section 3 language: I trust someone else has done this upthread: > No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and VicePresident, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. ETA: Endorse [Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic) in the next post. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/260 "2023-10-30T18:46:56Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Common sense states that somebody needs to make a finding of fact. What I’m not clear on is whether it would be sufficient for an official to make such a finding of fact, provided it was subject to appeal to the court system. This seems to be the crux of the matter. There needs to be a process, and an adjudication of the factual basis of invoking the 14th. Otherwise, one could look into the future and see a time when every single Democratic candidate for president is disqualified because the Republicans deemed them to be “engaged in insurrection” because they did not agree with Republican policies. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/261 "2023-10-30T19:26:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Otherwise, one could look into the future and see a time when every single Democratic candidate for president is disqualified because the Republicans deemed them to be “engaged in insurrection” because they did not agree with Republican policies. If we get to the point where we can’t differentiate between debating, and sending a mob to storm the Capitol then stick a fork in us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=14)