# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/442 "2023-12-20T12:43:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I predict that any SC justices that went against Trump will be arrested and jailed along with the others on Trumps enemies list. It’s going to be ugly. Yeah. I wonder how Trump will punish Colorado if he wins. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/443 "2023-12-20T12:53:48Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > AFAIK, the Colorado Supreme Court has seven judges appointed by Democrats. If they can barely squeak out a 4/3 win, it’s highly unlikely that the heavily conservative SCOTUS will uphold this. The difficulty for the Democratic appointees to rule this way is because the majority was taking the conservative constitutional position, as show by Gorsuch’s earlier ruling. Ignoring the partisanship of the situation, the Republican justices would uphold the Colorado ruling. The reason the Supreme Court might not is because of naked partisanship on the part of the Republican justices. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Democratic justices also siding against the Colorado decision, because they tend to take a more pragmatic approach. My worthless prediction: Supreme Court rules 8-1 (Kagan dissenting) to overturn the Colorado court. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/444 "2023-12-20T13:26:40Z")
That bold statesman Vivek Ramaswamy has said he’s removing himself from the ballot in Colorado in sympathy for Trump. If others follow suit, it could be interesting, but probably not pivotal? > **[Ramaswamy pledges to withdraw from Colorado GOP primary in solidarity with Trump](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ramaswamy-pledges-withdraw-colorado-gop-primary-solidarity-trump/story?id=105794659)** > > Presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy pledged on Tuesday to remove himself from Colorado’s Republican primary ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/445 "2023-12-20T13:33:59Z")
The “party of state’s rights” doesn’t seem to care for the way that the state of Colorado runs a Colorado election in the state of Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/446 "2023-12-20T13:38:14Z")
I know this is hyperbolic, but I’m thinking about moving all my money to cash around 01-November. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/447 "2023-12-20T13:41:24Z")
That’s an interesting electoral strategy. Best wishes to him with it! ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/448 "2023-12-20T13:51:34Z")
Or gold. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/449 "2023-12-20T13:58:39Z")
He does seem to have forgotten he’s supposed to want to win. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/450 "2023-12-20T14:00:10Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The difficulty for the Democratic appointees to rule this way is because the majority was taking the conservative constitutional position, as show by Gorsuch’s earlier ruling. There’s two different constitutional issues at play in this case; only one was under consideration in Gorsuch’s ruling. The first issue is whether the state can deny ballot access on grounds of ineligibility under the federal Constitution. Gorsuch’s earlier ruling held that the states do have that constitutional power. I don’t know if I would characterise that as a conservative position? The other question is the nature of the alleged ineligibility. From a quick skim of Gorsuch’s ruling, he didn’t really deal with that. But that’s the major issue here: what does s. 3 of the 14th Amendment mean? I could see the Supreme Court generally accepting Gorsuch’s analysis on the power of the state to deny ballot access for ineligibility, but then splitting all over the place on the s. 3 issue, since it is a case of first impression with major political consequences. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/451 "2023-12-20T14:03:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No. CRS 1-4-304(5) says the electors must vote for the **candidate** with the most votes. That was upheld by SCOTUS so if you try to vote for someone else, they fire you and replace you. I believe that is true only if the electors are pledged electors. It’s possible to have unpledged electors who can’t, by definition, be faithless. If a set of unpledged electors were put forth by the Republican party in a state where Trump was not allowed on the ballot, I’d think most voters could guess who they might vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/452 "2023-12-20T14:08:53Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It’s possible to have unpledged electors who can’t, by definition, be faithless. I did not know that; thanks; TIL. > **[Unpledged elector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpledged_elector)** > > In United States presidential elections, an unpledged elector is a person nominated to stand as an elector but who has not pledged to support any particular presidential or vice presidential candidate, and is free to vote for any candidate when elected a member of the Electoral College. Presidential elections are indirect, with voters in each state choosing electors on Election Day in November, and these electors choosing the president and vice president of the United States in December. Elec An... ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/453 "2023-12-20T14:11:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yet Donald Trump was found to legally have committed the act of sexual assault in a _civil_ trial Sure, a civil trial. Kind of like with OJ Simpson. But the key is he had a trial, not some government official declaring he was guilty of sexual assault. That is my issue with Norther Piper’s position, that he effectively wants Trump off the ballot for with effectively (though technically not exactly) a bill of attainder. I never said there had to be a criminal trial, a civil trial would work just as well. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/454 "2023-12-20T14:11:53Z")
Can an elector cast a vote for a constitutionally unqualified candidate, and if so, can that vote be counted? There must be some precedent for this. On the face of it, ISTM that a vote for an unqualified candidate must be void. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/455 "2023-12-20T14:12:21Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I’m pretty sure it’s-- throwing Ballon off the bidet. No. It’s throwing Brandon off the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/456 "2023-12-20T14:17:40Z")
Oooooo… I misspelled “ballot” as “ballet”. I get all the jokes now. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/457 "2023-12-20T14:18:15Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Can an elector cast a vote for a constitutionally unqualified candidate, and if so, can that vote be counted? [Yes and no](https://www.cato.org/blog/electoral-count-act-presidential-ineligibility) > Next, in 1872, Democratic presidential nominee Horace Greeley lost the general election and then unexpectedly died less than a month later, before the electors could meet and vote. Most Democratic electors voted for someone else, but three stuck to their pledge and voted for the deceased Greeley. Another debate ensued in Congress at the electoral count, with some arguing that a deceased candidate is no longer a “person” and thus inherently ineligible. The House ultimately voted against counting these three votes and the Senate voted in favor of counting them. Under the rules in place at the time, both houses had to agree to count a vote, so the votes for Greeley were not counted. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/458 "2023-12-20T14:37:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > My worthless prediction: Supreme Court rules 8-1 (Kagan dissenting) to overturn the Colorado court. I agree overall, though maybe 7-2. I think the idea that this SC would make such a consequential decision on such quicksand-like ground to be ludicrous. I expect a quick (in SC terms) slapdown of the CO court ruling. Though of course I hope I am wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/459 "2023-12-20T14:39:53Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump falls within **the definition of being constitutionally prohibited** ; and yes, Colorado has the right to decide to keep Trump off the ballot based on that definition. Bolding mine. But where is this definition? AFAICT, the Constitution doesn’t define “insurrection,” so the determination that Trump participated in one is strictly up to the Colorado Secretary of State. I, of course, agree with the CSoS 100%. But I can certainly see the argument that one person’s decision (as opposed to that made in a civil or criminal trial) doesn’t meet constitutional muster. Otherwise, what’s to stop the batshit crazy Texas SoS from deciding that Joe Biden saying hello to Hunter’s business partners was participation in an insurrection and that Joe is ineligible to be on the Texas ballot? And remember, just because it makes absolutely no sense doesn’t mean a Republican won’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/460 "2023-12-20T14:43:50Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The first issue is whether the state can deny ballot access on grounds of ineligibility under the federal Constitution. Gorsuch’s earlier ruling held that the states do have that constitutional power. I don’t know if I would characterise that as a conservative position? > > The other question is the nature of the alleged ineligibility. From a quick skim of Gorsuch’s ruling, he didn’t really deal with that. But that’s the major issue here: what does s. 3 of the 14th Amendment mean? Deciding that Trump is ineligible to run for office is conservative in the sense that it’s the textualist and originalist reading of the Constitution, including the states’ retention of powers. Liberal judicial decisions tend to be more practical, considering the impacts of the decision on the individuals and the populace as a whole (the “justice for all” ideal). The _better_ decision would be to keep Trump on the ballot, simply because it’s illiberal and instable to prevent people from voting for their widely preferred candidate. Some of the Republican justices (Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch) don’t care about that and will vote their partisanship over any judicial principles. Roberts, Kavanaugh, Barrett are persuadable on the merits; I could see them going either way depending if the plain reading takes priority for them or not. I think the three Democratic appointees would tend to vote to overturn because of the negative impacts upholding would have, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them dissented for partisanship. I’m absolutely sure that Roberts will be trying to get a unanimous decision–that’s the only way to preserve the Court’s dignity. No more than one justice will hold out against that. Edited to add: My personal feelings are that Trump should not be on the ballot. But this process of removing him from the ballot is not good law. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/461 "2023-12-20T14:53:12Z")
[Sen. Tillis to introduce legislation barring federal funds from states ‘misusing’ 14th Amendment (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sen-tillis-to-introduce-legislation-barring-federal-funds-from-states-misusing-14th-amendment/ar-AA1lLpjP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f8be9a54fbc44ff8bacc8aa94792c7f5&ei=49) > Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) is set to introduce a bill barring federal funds for election administration from states “misusing” the 14th Amendment. Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee yet, but I don’t see anything in the article about withholding federal funds. What it says is: > The bill aims to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002, adding language to the law stating that the Supreme Court has “sole jurisdiction to decide claims arising out of section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=24)