# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/562 "2023-12-21T03:31:19Z")
What about some [red states threatening to remove Biden from the ballot](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-threaten-take-joe-biden-off-ballot-trump-colorado-1854067)? Any chance of that happening if the SC kicks it back to the states? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/563 "2023-12-21T03:40:37Z")
Depends on what basis. I suppose I have to click away to find out. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/564 "2023-12-21T03:53:19Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > Any chance of that happening if the SC kicks it back to the states? Of course R factions in all 50 states can try. And if their state government is sufficiently partisanly criminal they will succeed. TX coming readily to mind. Once the game is rigged, there simply are no rules. There is simply power. And the side with enough power in any given place will win every time. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/565 "2023-12-21T03:59:43Z")
It’s the same garbage as with impeachment. “Well, Republicans are just going to impeach Biden, then.” OK, what for? Nothing, they’re just going to impeach him. Right, ok. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/566 "2023-12-21T04:01:18Z")
The Republican War on Law and Order. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/567 "2023-12-21T06:07:57Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I’m not even convinced a state court can impose the federal disability in the first place, and would want a federal court to rule on that question. ISTM that the state court in question imposed a _state_ disability on Trump, not a _federal_ one. They ruled on a matter that only involves Colorado, to wit: the qualifications for being on the Colorado primary ballot for president in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/568 "2023-12-21T07:53:36Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > That’s an interesting electoral strategy. Best wishes to him with it! [“That’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for him.”](https://images.app.goo.gl/gGiSXg6TWCVy2ULY7) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/569 "2023-12-21T09:15:18Z")
And of course the Judges are getting death threats. Because thats the way the GOP works now- Thugs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/570 "2023-12-21T09:16:43Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > That bold statesman Vivek Ramaswamy has said he’s removing himself from the ballot in Colorado in sympathy for Trump. Since he had zero chance anyway, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/571 "2023-12-21T10:58:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Since he had zero chance anyway, why not? He’s probably giving up dozens of votes. Well, maybe a baker’s dozen. Anyway, this is absolutely heroic. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/572 "2023-12-21T11:28:28Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > But he’s learned I’m automatically skeptical. Just pure visceral reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/573 "2023-12-21T11:39:22Z")
And if Kevin hadn’t flown down there and convinced the malodorous malcontent to, for the good of the nation, eat something, it might have wasted away by now. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/574 "2023-12-21T11:42:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But it’s not automatic that someone who commits sedition is known to commit sedition. OK, sometimes it’s pretty clear, but sometimes it’s not. > > Let’s say that some citizen pulled an Aldritch Ames, stole nuclear secrets, and sold them to North Korea. Except this guy manages not to get caught. T The concept of when a crime is _known_ is distinct from when it is actually tried or convicted. The concept of statue of limitations is actually based on this. Trump’s acts are known, they have been charged by a grand jury. And remember those are criminal proceedings; if he is found not guilty, it doesn’t mean he didn’t do that crime; it means the jury did not find enough evidence to deprive a private citizen of his freedom. That’s an extremely high standard. Rightfully so, but that high standard doesn’t apply to removal of the privilege of seeking public office. It’s not sufficient for a President to have been criminally aquitted of sedition. A candidate needs to be so squeaky-clean that no grand jury would even consider _charging_ for sedition, because again, ineligibility for office is not a criminal consequence (well, except in the rare case when being President will allow you to discharge multiple criminal proceedings that might land you in jail). ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/575 "2023-12-21T12:21:44Z")
There has been much discussion in this thread about the 14th Amendment. But I have seen little or no discussion of Article II, Section 1 which states, among other things, “…Each State shall appoint, **in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct** [emphasis added], a Number of Electors … .” In the early years of this republic electors were appointed directly by the state legislatures and there were no popular elections for electors. Perhaps the question is whether or not Trump’s exclusion from the ballot was done in a manner directed by the Colorado legislature, i.e., a statutory scheme that empowers state officials and the state judiciary to determine who is eligible to appear on the ballot. As an extreme hypothetical, suppose the state legislature of the fictional U.S. state of New Celery enacted a law that stated that electors for anyone who has ever worn yellow shoes as determined by the New Celery Secretary of Silliness cannot be on the ballot, Wouldn’t this be the legislature’s prerogative under the U.S. Constituion? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/576 "2023-12-21T12:26:49Z")
As would a legislature passing a law that there is no popular election for president in their state and that only the Republican candidate may be chosen by all future electors. An interesting question is if they could also attach a feature to that law that it requires the unanimous vote of the legislature to ever change. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/577 "2023-12-21T12:32:23Z")
Texas Lt. Gov Dan Patrick has suggested (probably not seriously) that Biden should be removed from the state’s ballot. I am unsurprised. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/578 "2023-12-21T12:37:23Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > What about some [red states threatening to remove Biden from the ballot](https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-threaten-take-joe-biden-off-ballot-trump-colorado-1854067)? Any chance of that happening if the SC kicks it back to the states? Here’s an interesting take on that possibility: > [@](#): > > Democrats are applauding the Colorado Supreme Court decision to remove Trump from the ballot. This move, though, may open the door for Republicans to disqualify Biden. > > … > > First, let me be clear. I am in no way saying that Trump cannot or should not be disqualified from running for office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment for launching an insurrection against the government in efforts to stop the peaceful transfer of power on January 6, 2021. What I’m saying is that we need to be prepared for the chaos and potentially lethal damage to Democracy that will ensue when Republicans to attempt to remove Biden from the ballot in response. In an electoral battle between red states and blue states, Democrats are outnumbered. We are currently not prepared. > > The Republicans are good at using the 14th Amendment against us. They’ve made a game out of it. They’ve used the 14th Amendment to kill affirmative action. They’ve used it to block Black farmers from receiving federal funding. And now they are going to use it to remove Biden from the ballot in every red state that will go along with it. Here’s how. > > … > > It is clear that Trump violated this clause when he attempted to violently overturn the 2020 election. What trips most people up is understanding how this law could be applied to Biden. One of the comments that I am usually met with is, “But Biden didn’t attempt an insurrection!” That is correct. Biden did not launch an insurrection. He didn’t have to, though. The GOP will argue that, with the help of Hunter Biden, he gave aid and comfort to our enemies. They already have. > > According to a[report](https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-releases-third-bank-memo-detailing-payments-to-the-bidens-from-russia-kazakhstan-and-ukraine%EF%BF%BC/) released by the House Committee on Oversight: > > _“House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Chairman James Comer (R-Ky.) today released a third bank records memorandum detailing new information obtained in the Committee’s investigation into the Biden family’s influence peddling schemes. The memorandum outlines how the Bidens and their business associates received millions from oligarchs in Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine during Joe Biden’s vice presidency. After Hunter Biden received millions of dollars in payments, then-Vice President Joe Biden dined with his son’s foreign associates in Washington, D.C. Devon Archer, Hunter Biden’s former business partner, recently testified that then-Vice President Joe Biden was “the brand” sold to enrich the Biden family and was used to send “signals” of access, power, and influence.”_ > > _Speaker of the House Mike Johnson also [wrote](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/12/12/biden-impeachment-inquiry-vote-house-republicans-speaker-mike-johnson/71877294007/):_ > > _“_ _The American people have a right to know whether the president − through his family − traded official acts for foreign dollars, whether the president is compromised and whether Joe Biden abused his power as president to impede or obstruct the investigation into Hunter Biden. As we have done all along, House Republicans will continue to follow the facts where they lead.”_ > > I personally do not believe that joe Biden is a Chinese asset, or that there is any evidence to prove that he is. Unfortunately, the GOP doesn’t need evidence to apply 14th Amendment. They only need a narrative and enough public officials to go along with it. They already have the [Lieutenant Governor of Texas](https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-lt-guv-threatens-to-take-biden-off-states-ballot-after-colorado-ruling) prepared to remove Biden from the ballot. I’m sure he’ll be the first of many. > **[Trump Has Been Removed From a State Ballot. Biden is Next.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/12/20/2212853/-Trump-Has-Been-Removed-From-a-State-Ballot-Biden-is-Next?utm_campaign=trending)** > > Democrats are applauding the Colorado Supreme Court decision to remove Trump from the ballot. This move, though, may open the door for Republicans to disqualify Biden. Back in August, I published a piece that describes how the GOP can and probably... ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/579 "2023-12-21T13:57:05Z")
The more I think about this, the more negative it all feels. As I see it, the only way it comes out well is if SCOTUS takes up the case and uses the opportunity to define “insurrection.” I’d hope that they also determine that Colorado was correct in its assertion that Trump did engage in insurrection, but that’s almost beside the point. If they don’t define insurrection, every red state will find some reason to drop Biden from their ballots. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/580 "2023-12-21T14:11:49Z")
Good luck getting the Supreme Court to rule that Biden gave aid or comfort to our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/581 "2023-12-21T14:15:57Z")
I predict the majority Supreme Court opinion will hold that this is a “political question” (unlike objective qualifications for president, like age), and therefore up to the voters to decide. On one hand, that renders the applicable section of the 14th amendment effectively unenforceable. But on the other hand, it sidesteps the predictable political shenanigans that Colorado’s action will inspire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=30)