# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/662 "2023-12-26T18:43:36Z")
Heard on CNN the judges are getting threats now. Wonderbar. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/663 "2023-12-26T18:45:57Z")
If there’s one thing Trump supporters believe in, it’s democracy. No, scratch that. If there’s one thing Trump supporters believe in it’s threatening judges to get your way. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/664 "2023-12-26T18:50:46Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If there’s one thing Trump supporters believe in it’s threatening judges to get your way. Except that they don’t restrict their threats to just judges. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/665 "2023-12-26T20:47:37Z")
> **[Will Trump provoke a crisis of legitimacy for the US supreme court? | Sidney...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/26/trump-us-supreme-court-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)** > > The court can only rescue Trump from the Colorado ruling by shredding originalism and textualism. Will it? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/666 "2023-12-26T21:08:16Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > [Will Trump provoke a crisis of legitimacy for the US supreme court? | Sidney Blumenthal | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/26/trump-us-supreme-court-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) > . I’ve got $20 that says the answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/667 "2023-12-26T21:10:29Z")
Very informative article, especially the relevant historical stuff. Re this: > In taking up Trump’s appeal, the US supreme court cannot review the basic facts. It cannot call witnesses on its own. It cannot hear new witnesses. It cannot declare the Colorado court’s conclusions erroneous on the facts. Is this actually true? I know that courts of appeal do not _usually_ review findings of fact in lower courts. But is that technically true of the U.S. Supreme Court? Not that I’m seriously suggesting that the way forward here is for the USSC to call witnesses and conduct a trial of Trump for insurrection, but I’m unsure what (if any) their theoretical constraints are. [The U.S. Supreme Court As Fact Finder? - Constitutional Law](https://conlaw.jotwell.com/the-u-s-supreme-court-as-fact-finder/) > Larson shows that some justices have used “in house” fact finding, beyond the crucible of the adversary process and cross examination, in 90 of 120 of the most important cases decided in the last 15 years. More realistically, it seems to me that although their job shouldn’t be to act as the finder of fact, there job should certainly be to establish the _procedure_ for fact-finding for the purposes of 14A disqualification. It hardly seems right that a lower Colorado court could be the fact-finder for a decision that is binding on all states; and even more ridiculous (even if consistent with the Constitution) that different states should do so independently and potentially come to contradictory findings of fact for a national election. If the SC decides that there should be some other procedure for establishing insurrection for 14A purposes, that seems like it inevitably ends up as a _de facto_ potential change in the finding of fact that he is an insurrectionist. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/668 "2023-12-27T01:46:29Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > [Will Trump provoke a crisis of legitimacy for the US supreme court? | Sidney Blumenthal | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/26/trump-us-supreme-court-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) > . Blumenthal is probably correct that the Supreme Court decision, in the Colorado case, will not be an A+ law student sort of job should they rule for Trump. But I don’t see how the way the Supreme Court writes up their justification, for any particular decision, creates a crisis of legitimacy. Blumenthal Is too sure of things. Consider his take on Ted Cruz. I was personally convinced that [Cruz is ineligible to be President](https://scholarship.law.edu/lawreview/vol64/iss2/6/) due to being born in Canada. Maybe I, and my link, are wrong. But this wrongness isn’t so absolutely certain as Blumenthal says. Most Americans probably sense, as I do, that the decision in the Colorado case was not the only one possible for a competent judge. That’s why there were dissenters. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/669 "2023-12-27T02:03:41Z")
I agree with everything you wrote. My response was to the first lines of the article, which weren’t included in the quote. To wit: > The court can only rescue Trump from the Colorado ruling by shredding originalism and textualism. Will it? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/670 "2023-12-27T12:50:53Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Part of me can’t even believe we’re having this discussion – that a presidential candidate could be _helped_ by a state supreme court ruling he’s unfit to even be on the ballot. This country has lost its mind. Worth repeating. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/671 "2023-12-27T12:56:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If the interpretation of the law is correct (which I am no expert on, and I know lawyers have had different opinions on this, that’s why I leave that part open), then by definition the judges have done the right thing, and I do not wish for anything more or less. Judges should uphold the law, and nobody is above the law. > > _And_ I am worried that the consequences of this will be bad. I agree with this completely. I understood Mijin the first time they posted in this thread, and I find it odd some are having trouble getting this. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/672 "2023-12-27T14:27:35Z")
Unfortunately the Supreme Court of my state of Michigan, which as a swing state would have had more impact on the election, [rejected the ‘insurrectionist ban’ case and will keep trump on the ballot](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/27/politics/michigan-supreme-court-rejects-insurrectionist-ban-case-and-keeps-trump-on-2024-primary-ballot/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/673 "2023-12-27T14:34:15Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I understood Mijin the first time they posted in this threa A rough analogy might be the Nov. ‘24 election itself. I fully support that the election take place, freely and fairly, exactly on time, and in full compliance with all relevant laws. _And_ I’m worried about the consequences. (While fully acknowledging that the consequences of _not_ complying with the law would be much, much worse). It’s more a _lament_ that this contradiction exists, rather than a “worry” with any possible actionable resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/674 "2023-12-27T14:50:08Z")
The Michigan courts rejected the challenge on the grounds of state law, though. According to the courts, there are no laws in Michigan to enforce any sort of eligibility requirements for office. So that’s not a precedent for any state where there are such laws. The Supreme Court has found that states can enforce eligibility requirements, but that just means that the Michigan legislature could, if they choose, pass such a law. It doesn’t require them to. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/675 "2023-12-27T15:28:21Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > A rough analogy might be the Nov. ‘24 election itself. I fully support that the election take place, freely and fairly, exactly on time, and in full compliance with all relevant laws. > > _And_ I’m worried about the consequences. > > (While fully acknowledging that the consequences of _not_ complying with the law would be much, much worse). Yep, agreed, and thanks. It’s true that with the election the absolute best case is the status quo. Plus I guess taking the House if we can dream. Then on the other side we have not just losing the election, and the Senate, but all the violence, disinformation and tears in the fabric of democracy that we might see along the way. And I just mean the _election itself_…obviously “tears in the fabric of democracy” would be a hell of an understatement for a second Trump term. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/676 "2023-12-27T17:40:47Z")
I thought Michigan was specifically about the Primary - and not the General, which could be re-litigated if Trump wins the primary. Or am I thinking of a different state? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/677 "2023-12-27T19:32:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Supreme Court has found that states can enforce eligibility requirements, but that just means that the Michigan legislature could, if they choose, pass such a law. It doesn’t require them to. Which case is that, please? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/678 "2023-12-27T20:12:03Z")
I saw it mentioned in another thread, but I don’t remember which one, unfortunately. Possible, of course, that I (or the post I read it in) am mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/679 "2023-12-27T20:33:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Supreme Court has found that states can enforce eligibility requirements, but that just means that the Michigan legislature could, if they choose, pass such a law. It doesn’t require them to. Was that from this ruling? > **[Supreme Court denies state legislatures the unchecked power to set election...](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/27/supreme-court-rejects-independent-state-legislature-theory-00103793)** > > In a 6-3 ruling, the justices affirmed the power of state courts to review state laws governing federal elections — a decision that rejects a once-fringe legal theory pushed by Republicans. The case was [Moore v. Harper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_v._Harper). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/680 "2023-12-27T20:59:27Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Part of me can’t even believe we’re having this discussion – that a presidential candidate could be _helped_ by a state supreme court ruling he’s unfit to even be on the ballot. This country has lost its mind. trump also claims that his _indictments_ will help him at the polls. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/681 "2023-12-27T21:06:30Z")
It’s not Colorado but the same case (basically) in a different state: - [Michigan Supreme Court rejects ‘insurrectionist ban’ case and keeps Trump on 2024 primary ballot](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/27/politics/michigan-supreme-court-rejects-insurrectionist-ban-case-trump) > The Michigan Supreme Court has rejected an attempt to remove former President Donald Trump from the 2024 primary ballot based on the US Constitution’s “insurrectionist ban.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=35)