# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/762 "2023-12-29T05:30:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does actual guilt or innocence factor into your argument at all, or is it totally a “tit for tat” situation to you? I think the issue is not that we should be afraid to pursue a just course because of the unethical way the Republicans would inevitably respond for partisan “revenge”. The issue I see @Saint_Cad raising is that if the SC won’t engage with the issue, there is simply no legal _recourse_ against such a Republican response. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/763 "2023-12-29T05:36:33Z")
I can’t find a thread about Maine. Is that being discussed here? > **[Donald Trump removed from Maine primary ballot by secretary of state](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/28/maine-trump-primary-ballot/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAzNzM5NjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA1MTIxOTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDM3Mzk2MDAsImp0aSI6IjgzYTdhODI2LWI5NTMtNGIyNC1iNTNjLWFhNDllZjIyMmQzMyIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9wb2xpdGljcy8yMDIzLzEyLzI4L21haW5lLXRydW1wLXByaW1hcnktYmFsbG90LyJ9.xPKM6ZmLlU6rz1AdMC82tD9Wx9HQLcrpBqZMzw9uuqU&itid=gfta)** > > Maine is the second state to block the former president from running again under a part of the Constitution that prevents insurrectionists from holding office. (Gift link) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/764 "2023-12-29T05:39:40Z")
Thanks Reimann. That is exactly it. There are two issues here (depending on state) that need to be addressed by SCOTUS as a national issue. Secretaries of State having unilateral power to declare someone ineligible as was tried on Obama re: being a non-NBC or Trump committing insurrection or Biden for ??? Secretaries of State not having power to exclude someone that is undeniably ineligible such as someone that was born in Austria or has only resided in the US 6 months of their life. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/765 "2023-12-29T05:50:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One of the petitioners in Maine had a unique argument; Trump says he won the 2020 election, therefore he’s ineligible for the ballot due to term limits. > > I wouldn’t expect that line of reasoning to hold up in court, but it’s amusing all the same. It doesn’t have to hold up in order to be raised, and possibly force one of Trump’s mouthpieces to say in a motion for summary judgment that Trump has not been elected twice. Which might be useful, and would certainly be even more amusing. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/766 "2023-12-29T05:57:03Z")
Two states halfway down, 48 to go! Go Maine! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/767 "2023-12-29T06:16:57Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That would seem to imply that both Trump AND Biden should be off the ticket. Trump because of his two terms, and Biden because he’s an insurrectionist who usurped Trump’s second term. This could be just the break the Phillips campaign has been waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/768 "2023-12-29T06:54:02Z")
[Maine bars Trump from ballot as US Supreme Court weighs state authority to block former president](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/world/2023/12/501_365981.html) > Maine’s Democratic secretary of state on Thursday removed former President Donald Trump from the state’s presidential primary ballot under the Constitution’s insurrection clause , becoming the first election official to take action unilaterally as the U.S. Supreme Court is poised to decide whether Trump remains eligible to continue his campaign. > > The decision by Secretary of State Shenna Bellows follows a ruling earlier this month by the Colorado Supreme Court that booted Trump from the ballot there under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. That decision has been stayed until the U.S. Supreme Court decides whether Trump is barred by the Civil War-era provision, which prohibits those who “engaged in insurrection” from holding office. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/769 "2023-12-29T06:54:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One of the petitioners in Maine had a unique argument; Trump says he won the 2020 election, therefore he’s ineligible for the ballot due to term limits. I’ve been thinking the same thing for years. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/770 "2023-12-29T12:49:53Z")
And now someone has filed a complaint in Wisconsin: > **[Owner of Minocqua Brewing Co. files complaint to bar Trump from ballot](https://www.wxow.com/news/owner-of-minocqua-brewing-co-files-complaint-to-bar-trump-from-ballot/article_85fd564a-2786-5f5f-82e1-26240e2dd012.html)** > > The owner of a Wisconsin brewing company has filed a petition with the Wisconsin Elections Commission that would bar former president Donald Trump from the state's ballot. Note that in Wisconsin the Wisconsin Elections Commission, not the Secretary of State is responsible for elections. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/771 "2023-12-29T13:30:17Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > …This needs to fly through appeals like shit through a goose, … How does the timing work? As I recall, CO said they need to start printing ballots by some date crazy early in January - the 3d or 4th. Here it is December 29 - not a time of year the courts generally operate at warp speed. What are the legal/economic factors related to the deadline identified by CO? Do they have to hold off until final appeals? Or proceed, and then just revise later? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/772 "2023-12-29T14:36:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > > > And does anybody know if former Confederate officers appeared in the Spanish American war without having been “pardoned” by congress? > > > > Wasn’t there one former Confederate officer in the S-A War who got carried away in the excitement of the moment and yelled « Good work, boys, we’ve got the Yankees on the run! » ? > > > > Paging @Elendil_s_Heir , Civil War guy. > > Fighting Joe Wheeler. He was also elected to Congress after the Civil War. Roosevelt was under his command. Yup, that’s the guy: [Joseph Wheeler - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Wheeler#Spanish%E2%80%93American_War) > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > One of the petitioners in Maine had a unique argument; Trump says he won the 2020 election, therefore he’s ineligible for the ballot due to term limits. > > I’ve been thinking the same thing for years. As have I. As I’ve said elsewhere on the Dope, I wish someone would box him in on that point in one of his many depositions: “So it is your testimony, Mr. Trump, under oath and subject to the pains and penalties of perjury, that you were elected President in both 2016 and 2020?” The 22nd Amendment discusses how many times you’re _elected_, not whether or not you actually serve out a term. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/773 "2023-12-29T14:38:15Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > How does the timing work? As I recall, CO said they need to start printing ballots by some date crazy early in January - the 3d or 4th. Here it is December 29 - not a time of year the courts generally operate at warp speed. > > What are the legal/economic factors related to the deadline identified by CO? Do they have to hold off until final appeals? Or proceed, and then just revise later? I don’t know, but they’re great questions. I believe I read that the timing basically ensures Trump will be on the Colorado primary ballot. But you’re getting at exactly why this needs to be super-expedited. We’re already past the point where confusion is widespread. Chaos will soon follow. Every level of judicial involvement must recognize the crucial point in our history we now inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/774 "2023-12-29T14:39:14Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Two states halfway down, 48 to go! You forgot DC ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/775 "2023-12-29T14:42:34Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I don’t know, but they’re great questions. I believe I read that the timing basically ensures Trump will be on the Colorado primary ballot. If he wins but is ineligible, I suspect the Republican Party will choose his replacement in the general. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/776 "2023-12-29T14:46:59Z")
Yep, makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/777 "2023-12-29T14:55:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I can’t find a thread about Maine. Is that being discussed here? Maybe this thread should be re-named again, to be the general thread keeping track of the decisions in each state? (It started out with the title about conservative law profs raising the issue, then got re-named after the Colorado decision.) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/778 "2023-12-29T14:58:51Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As have I. As I’ve said elsewhere on the Dope, I wish someone would box him in on that point in one of his many depositions: “So it is your testimony, Mr. Trump, under oath and subject to the pains and penalties of perjury, that you were elected President in both 2016 and 2020?” The 22nd Amendment discusses how many times you’re _elected_, not whether or not you actually serve out a term. I’m not sure about you, but other posters here have often ridiculed strictly textualist readings of the constitution. I suspect that, if the tables were turned—that is, Biden won two elections, someone usurped the office for the second term, and Biden is now running again—these same posters would be purposivistically arguing that Biden would be electable in the third election, since the _intent_ of the amendment is to prevent someone from serving as president for three terms, not merely being elected to the office. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/779 "2023-12-29T15:00:42Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Fighting Joe Wheeler. He was also elected to Congress after the Civil War. Roosevelt was under his command. > > Yup, that’s the guy: [Joseph Wheeler - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Wheeler#Spanish%E2%80%93American_War) And googling tells me he, and other confederates, were _pardoned_. Donald, not so much. Wiggle out of _that_, Supreme Court! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/780 "2023-12-29T15:15:18Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I can’t find a thread about Maine. Is that being discussed here? > > Maybe this thread should be re-named again, to be the general thread keeping track of the decisions in each state? This thread started as a general thread about the argument that Trump is ineligible. Then Colorado ruled he was. The issue came up in Michigan and was discussed here. I mentioned Maine here. Now there is a challenge in Wisconsin. I don’t think we want a new thread about every state because there will probably be more, and we’d probably need yet another thread to discuss a SCOTUS ruling if it covers all of the country. Seems better in one thread since it’s all the same issue. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/781 "2023-12-29T15:20:55Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As I’ve said elsewhere on the Dope, I wish someone would box him in on that point in one of his many depositions: “So it is your testimony, Mr. Trump, under oath and subject to the pains and penalties of perjury, that you were elected President in both 2016 and 2020?” The 22nd Amendment discusses how many times you’re _elected_ , not whether or not you actually serve out a term. If this is anything more than a joke, the obvious response to a literal reading like this is that it talks about whether you _are_ elected, not whether you _believe_ you are elected. If anything hinged on personal belief, then a 34-year-old who sincerely (but mistakenly) believed that there was an error on their birth certificate would be eligible. The most you can get out of this is an accusation of hypocrisy, and I don’t think even that holds up. Among all the valid criticisms of Trump, I think this one is weak sauce. It’s really not hypocritical for him to say that _he_ believes he won, but that any 22A determination should hinge on whether _others_ believe he won. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=40)