# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/822 "2023-12-31T01:51:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is no precedence- at all, for any of this-, Not true. There’ve been 7 people excluded from office due to the insurrection clause. Six inbetween the passage of the amendment and Congress giving blanket amnesty. The other was in the past year or two. I don’t remember the details off the top of my head, but most, if not all, were not convicted of insurrection or a related offence. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/823 "2023-12-31T01:56:04Z")
Maine’s SoS was swatted lasst night. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/30/politics/maine-secretary-of-state-bellows-swatted/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/30/politics/maine-secretary-of-state-bellows-swatted/index.html) In a perfect world they’d be able to tack attempted murder onto Loser Donald’s rap sheet. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/824 "2023-12-31T01:59:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I don’t remember the details off the top of my head, but most, if not all, were not convicted of insurrection or a related offence. IIRC the recent ones were all convicted. And IIRC none of those were running for public office. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/825 "2023-12-31T02:01:40Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The other was in the past year or two. I don’t remember the details off the top of my head, but most, if not all, were not convicted of insurrection or a related offence. This might help. > **[Couy Griffin first elected official barred from office for participating in...](https://sourcenm.com/2022/09/06/couy-griffin-first-elected-official-barred-from-office-for-participating-in-jan-6-attack/)** > > Judge orders removal of Otero county commissioner and bans him from holding other elected positions ever again. And yes he was convicted. > Griffin was among the mob that stormed the Capitol in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6, 2021, in an attempt to overturn the election. He was arrested on Jan. 18, 2021, and convicted this past summer of illegally entering or remaining on restricted grounds. Griffin was sentenced to 14 days in jail, but was given credit for time served. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/826 "2023-12-31T02:06:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Maine’s SoS was swatted lasst night. That’s a bit weird though. I thought swatting usually involved reporting criminal activity on the part of the resident, to instigate a police response treating the homeowner as a potential criminal and potential threat. But law enforcement must know this is the SoS residence, and they would not treat any report that she was engaged in criminal activity as credible - their reaction would surely be protective rather than aggressive toward her. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/827 "2023-12-31T02:24:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This might help. Well, I was half wrong. Oh well It says this- _This ruling marks the first time an elected official is set to be unseated by court order as a result of participating in or supporting the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol._ …_This ruling marks the first time an elected official is set to be unseated by court order as a result of participating in or supporting the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol._ ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/828 "2023-12-31T02:30:47Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I thought swatting usually involved reporting criminal activity on the part of the resident No, it’s reporting criminal activity AT the home of the swattee. Like a break-in, or a gunshot, or a hostage situation in the house, or something similar. So the cops knew it was the home of the SOS, but had no idea who the actual alleged lawbreaker was. So as far as they knew, the SOS _was_ in danger, which may have helped the quick response and investigation. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/829 "2023-12-31T02:47:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > [Couy Griffin first elected official barred from office for participating in Jan. 6 attack - Source New Mexico](https://sourcenm.com/2022/09/06/couy-griffin-first-elected-official-barred-from-office-for-participating-in-jan-6-attack/) Googling this, he has [exhausted all appeals in New Mexico state courts](https://www.krqe.com/news/politics-government/new-mexico-supreme-court-maintains-couy-griffin-office-removal/), but claimed last month (truthfully or not, I cannot determine) that an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, regarding his removal from office, is pending: > **[Couy Griffin on DC Appeal Scheduled for Monday Dec 4th and Supreme Court Status...](https://2ndlifemediaalamogordo.town.news/g/alamogordo-nm/n/226917/couy-griffin-dc-appeal-scheduled-monday-dec-4th-and-supreme-court-status)** > > Couy Griffin interview with Anthony Lucero ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/830 "2023-12-31T02:49:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > I wonder if the court will say that only _Congress_ has the power to disqualify a candidate due to insurrection referenced in Article 3 of the amendment. > > I have to reluctantly admit that this seems like a very strong argument to me. I thought that I could counter with the 10th amendment, but that says > [@](#): > > The powers **not delegated to the United States by the Constitution** , nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. (My emphasis) The problem, as I see it, is that this is not merely a legal area where the congress has chosen not to act. Per the plain reading of the law, Congress is the only entity granted the power to enforce the 14th, by an express delegation of authority. The argument, then, is that Congress didn’t act because it _chose_ not to. Nobody else gets to fill that role just because they think Congress _should_, anymore than a state gets to pass its own immigration laws because it doesn’t think that the federal government is doing enough to secure the border. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/831 "2023-12-31T02:55:40Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > No, it’s reporting criminal activity AT the home of the swattee. Like a break-in, or a gunshot, or a hostage situation in the house, or something similar. At the home, obviously, but I thought it usually entailed something like “I think they are cooking meth in there and I just heard gunshots” or something like that, so that the police would be more likely to act aggressively toward the resident. But I guess what’s credible depends who you are swatting. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/832 "2023-12-31T03:05:07Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > (My emphasis) > The problem, as I see it, is that this is not merely a legal area where the congress has chosen not to act. Per the plain reading of the law, Congress is the only entity granted the power to enforce the 14th, by an express delegation of authority. > > The argument, then, is that Congress didn’t act because it _chose_ not to. Nobody else gets to fill that role just because they think Congress _should_, anymore than a state gets to pass its own immigration laws because it doesn’t think that the federal government is doing enough to secure the border. Sure, you can argue that it would take an act of Congress to lower the required standard of proof to a mere civil trial. But you could also argue that it would take an act of Congress to raise the required standard of proof to a criminal trial. Without an act of Congress, we’re in the default state, but nobody knows what that default state is. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/833 "2023-12-31T03:24:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Without an act of Congress, we’re in the default state, but nobody knows what that default state is. Under the plain reading of the 14th Amendment, the default position is whatever Congress chooses to do. So, a federal civil rights law that prohibits racial discrimination becomes the default state of discrimination law. But if the congress never passes a law that makes it unlawful, for example, to discriminate against children due to their age, then the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to child versus adult discrimination. Yes, the 14th says that you can’t be elected to office if you engage in insurrection. But until congress passes a law outlining the specific application, it only exists in the abstract, and isn’t specifically applicable to any particular person. (To be clear, I’m not saying that this is a correct, or even desirable, result. I’m just trying to think of what the court might do). ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/834 "2023-12-31T04:18:56Z")
Did any of the handful of people prevented from holding office via the 14A have Congress step in to create that outcome? However those situations were enforced (and the logic for denying appeals) might shed some light. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/835 "2023-12-31T17:28:29Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did any of the handful of people prevented from holding office via the 14A have Congress step in to create that outcome? Apparently not. First, some background, as the 14th amendment plainly was meant to apply to confederates. > [@](#): > > Section 3 adjudications against former Confederates were rare in the aftermath of the Civil War. That is because it was widely understood that former Confederates who took an oath to support the Constitution before the Civil War were disqualified under Section 3 and therefore many likely did not seek office in the first place. In fact, ex-Confederates flooded Congress with [thousands of amnesty requests](https://www.citizensforethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Confederate-Amnesty-Petitions-PI_0233_Select-Committee-on-Reconstruction-1867-71.pdf) to “remove” their Section 3 disqualification, demonstrating that they understood themselves to be disqualified even without a formal adjudication. In addition, the window for disqualifying ex-Confederates was small: the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified on July 9, 1868, and Congress removed the Section 3 disqualification for most ex-Confederates less than four years later in the Amnesty Act of May 22, 1872 (that statute [withheld amnesty](https://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/handle/11299/221946/02%20Magliocca.pdf) from Confederate leaders such as Jefferson Davis). So while only eight officials have been formally ruled to be disqualified under Section 3, thousands more were understood to be disqualified in the period between the Fourteenth Amendment’s ratification in 1868 and Congress’s passage of the Amnesty Act in 1872 that applied to former Confederates. However, there are 8 specific examples. In some of them, the U.S. congress refused to seat them, notwithstanding their election. In others, a state law or state official (such as a judge) ruled them ineligible. But the furthest those appeals went was to state supreme courts - it doesn’t appear that the US Supreme Court has ever weighed in. I’m guessing that will change. > **[The precedent for 14th Amendment disqualification - CREW | Citizens for...](https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/past-14th-amendment-disqualifications/)** > > At least eight public officials have been formally adjudicated to be disqualified and barred from public office under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment since its ratification in 1868. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/836 "2023-12-31T17:42:32Z")
Interesting. The clause assigning enforcement power to Congress in 14A seems to allow actions conducted without Congress’s involvement, I would think. If it were as unambiguously restrictive to anyone outside of Congress as suggested, surely even an “activist” state judiciary would have felt unable to bless a state official bouncing a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/837 "2023-12-31T17:48:41Z")
The swatting call could be something like there’s a break-in in progress, or the SoS is being held hostage, or someone’s shooting at the house. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/838 "2023-12-31T19:07:09Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The swatting call could be something like there’s a break-in in progress, or the SoS is being held hostage, or someone’s shooting at the house Seems like we’ve heard this before: > [@Railer13](#): > > Like a break-in, or a gunshot, or a hostage situation in the house, or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/839 "2023-12-31T20:11:20Z")
Hey, great minds, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/840 "2024-01-01T09:12:06Z")
I got a Crazy-Ass sample ballot for the primary in the mail. No trump, but there is a Donald Kjornes (how do you pronounce that? 🤔 ) along with Pence, Haley and 4 other names I’ve never heard of. On the Dem side, there is Biden, and _TWELVE_ other names! One of them is Superpayaseria Crystalroc, which sounds like somebody made it up. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/841 "2024-01-01T09:22:40Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > No trump, but there is a Donald Kjornes (how do you pronounce that? 🤔 ) Judging from his Twitter account, he’s running for president because the court gave his ex-wife custody. > > > Dude might just give Elmo Mush himself some solid competition for the title of “Most Divorced Man Alive”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=43)