# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/882 "2024-01-04T22:26:54Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Trump’s lawyers tried to insist that what happened wasn’t an insurrection. They refused to define it, but used the vague terminology that an insurrection was “more than a riot but less than a rebellion”. The Colorado courts didn’t buy that argument. I’m not surprised. That wouldn’t include the Civil War, which was definitely a rebellion. Did Trump’s lawyers even notice what they were saying? They probably meant to try to bound it only on the lower end, but according to that quote actually bounded it also on the upper. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/883 "2024-01-04T22:58:15Z")
Add in Illinois! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/884 "2024-01-04T23:35:34Z")
Not quite. There’s a challenge but it just started this week. They won’t even hear arguments for a week. > **[Voters seek to have Donald Trump removed from Illinois Primary ballot](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/voters-seek-to-have-donald-trump-removed-from-illinois-primary-ballot/)** > > A petition filed this week asks for a hearing with the Illinois State Board of Elections to keep the former president off the ballot on March 19. I found this interesting. > According to [Lawfare,](https://www.lawfaremedia.org/current-projects/the-trump-trials/section-3-litigation-tracker) there are pending cases in 14 other states challenging Trump’s candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/885 "2024-01-04T23:37:37Z")
SCOTUS has to clean up this hot mess. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/886 "2024-01-04T23:58:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I believe so. At least those that were ineligible petitioned Congress directly IIRC. There are two different powers Congress is granted by this amendment. What you’re referring to is that Congress can decide that, even though any given person committed insurrection, that person can hold office anyway. This does not mean that the person didn’t actually commit insurrection. But Congress also has a completely separate power to pass legislation to enforce the terms of the amendment. This power probably would encompass legislation that precisely defined “insurrection”, and set out a necessary process to determine whether someone had committed it. But that’s the part that Congress hasn’t done. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/887 "2024-01-04T23:59:49Z")
From the 14th amendment debate: [What the framers said about the 14th Amendment’s disqualification clause](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/framers-14th-amendments-disqualification-clause-analysis/story?id=105996364) > [@](#): > > This is to go into our Constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present; and I should like to have that point definitely understood. — Senator Peter Van Winkle And consider: > [@](#): > > As it originally passed the House, the 14th Amendment’s third section was not nearly as broad as the version now being invoked to strike Trump’s name from the ballot. It was narrowly crafted to apply only to those who willingly took part in the Civil War, and it was only meant to deprive former confederates of their right to cast ballots in federal elections. It also had an expiration date. Then they broadened it to what we have today. I have no certainty as to what 1868 Republicans would say, in the seance, about trans rights. But I know just what they’d say concerning the applicability of Section 3 to the likes of Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/888 "2024-01-05T00:07:30Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > SCOTUS has to clean up this hot mess. At this point I would not be surprised if the court ruled that Trump actually won in 2020, and declared him president. This is such a shit-show. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/889 "2024-01-05T00:13:27Z")
If we’re betting quatloos, whatever those are, on this then my quatloos say that the court is going to rule that of course Trump shall appear on the ballots. Then they’ll grab their crotches with one hand, and flip the bird with the other. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/890 "2024-01-05T01:01:39Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > betting quatloos, whatever those are Star Trek reference. In [one episode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gamesters_of_Triskelion), the Enterprise crew are forced to fight as gladiators, with aliens betting quatloos on the outcome of the games. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/891 "2024-01-05T01:01:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > At this point I would not be surprised if the court ruled that Trump actually won in 2020, and declared him president. I would be completely shocked since that’s a complete 180 of everything they’ve done up until now. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/892 "2024-01-05T09:33:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > At this point I would not be surprised if the court ruled that Trump actually won in 2020, and declared him president. If that were the case, then he DEFINITELY can’t run again, since you can’t serve more than two consecutive terms. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/893 "2024-01-05T11:58:57Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > From the 14th amendment debate: > > [What the framers said about the 14th Amendment’s disqualification clause](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/framers-14th-amendments-disqualification-clause-analysis/story?id=105996364) Interesting. Thanks for posting this. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/894 "2024-01-05T12:28:57Z")
Another point in favour of the insurrection prohibition of s. 3 being self-executing is the Amnesty Act of 1872, which broadly removed the disqualification for Civil War veterans. That Act only makes sense if s. 3 is self-executing. The Act is based on the assumption that all those vets were already barred from office by s. 3. No Congressional action had been necessary to disqualify them. Congress’ power was to remove the disqualification. > [@](#): > > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each house concurring therein), that all political disabilities **imposed by the third section of the fourteenth article of amendments of the Constitution of the United States** are hereby removed from all persons whomsoever, except Senators and Representatives of the thirty-sixth and thirty-seventh Congresses, officers in the judicial, military, and naval service of the United States, heads of departments, and foreign ministers of the United States. > **[Amnesty Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_Act)** > > The Amnesty Act of 1872 is a United States federal law passed on May 22, 1872, which removed most of the penalties imposed on former Confederates by the Fourteenth Amendment, adopted on July 9, 1868. Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits the election or appointment to any federal or state office of any person who had held any of certain offices and then engaged in insurrection, rebellion, or treason. However, the section provides that a two-thirds vote by each House of the Congress c... ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/895 "2024-01-05T12:39:14Z")
Now we are to vote on Trump and a VP without the insurrection bit decided. Then, after the election, 2/3 of house and senate reject Trump’s claim he was not running an insurrection only a protest. The Trump VP becomes president and Trump retires. She then pardons him for any remaining crimes, but Trump still is not in. But he wins over Biden! Trump goes on victory tour and finally, the election was not stolen. > **[Opinion | Trump’s most ludicrous gamble to stay on the Colorado ballot](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-supreme-court-colorado-ballot-14th-amendment-rcna132323)** > > Of the arguments Trump made to the Supreme Court hoping to appeal his disqualification under the 14th Amendment, this is this the most bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/896 "2024-01-05T12:54:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Apparently, Samuel Chase (yes, the only member of SCOTUS to ever face impeachment) opined while serving as a circuit judge for Virginia A little more than a nitpick, I think: the video referred to [Salmon P. Chase](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_P._Chase), who was Chief Justice of the United States from 1864 to 1873. [Samuel Chase](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Chase) (apparently no relation), aka Old Bacon Face (I am not making that up), was, as you said, the only Supreme Court Justice ever impeached. But he died in 1811, which would have made his ruling on the 14th Amendment a bit unlikely. FYI, Salmon Chase had quite a career. He was: - Governor of Ohio - Senator from Ohio - Secretary of the Treasury - Chief Justice Fun fact: he was also depicted on the $10,000 bill, the highest-value note ever issued by the U.S. ETA, another fun fact: while in college, I lived in a dorm named for Maryland’s Samuel Chase. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/897 "2024-01-05T13:01:38Z")
There was a $100,000 note, but it never circulated publicly. It was used solely to transfer funds between banks. Woodrow Wilson was on it. > **[$100,000 Bill | Museum of American Finance](https://www.moaf.org/exhibits/checks_balances/woodrow-wilson/100,000-gold-note)** ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/898 "2024-01-05T13:08:07Z")
Thanks. I remembered the factoid incorrectly. The Chase $10,000 was the largest ever to circulate publicly. I had incorrectly thought it was the one only used between banks, and had forgotten about the Wilson $100,000. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/899 "2024-01-05T13:10:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Apparently, Samuel Chase (yes, the only member of SCOTUS to ever face impeachment) opined while serving as a circuit judge for Virginia > …, > But years later, when Chase was a Justice om the Supreme Court I don’t think that’s quite correct. Salmon Chase only served on the Supreme Court, as Chief Justice. But back then, the Supreme Court judges sat as judges on the federal circuits, including trials and appeals. So it’s not that Salmon Chase at one point was a circuit judge and later was a Supreme Court judge. When he was on circuit, he was a Supreme Court judge. Paging @Elendil_s_Heir , resident expert on Chase. (And just as an aside, the comments that the other Justice Chase (Samuel), that got him impeached were made when he was on circuit sitting as a trial judge. ) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/900 "2024-01-05T14:09:53Z")
If I got my Chases wrong I apologize, I was taking notes as I was watching the video and probably screwed that up. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/901 "2024-01-05T14:18:09Z")
No biggie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=46)