# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1042 "2024-01-30T19:28:11Z")
I see that nobody mentioned the effort in Washington State that unfortunately failed a couple of weeks ago. [https://www.king5.com/amp/article/news/politics/thurston-county-judge-dismisses-effort-remove-trump-wa-ballot/281-8ae96414-c07e-4089-ac52-966e1513e4cc](https://www.king5.com/amp/article/news/politics/thurston-county-judge-dismisses-effort-remove-trump-wa-ballot/281-8ae96414-c07e-4089-ac52-966e1513e4cc) The reason: > On Thursday, Thurston County Superior Court Judge Mary Sue Wilson heard arguments but ultimately dismissed the case. It will not proceed any further. The judge ruled the state’s secretary of state “acted consistent with his duties” by law when designating Trump as an official candidate. The judge said any order from the court directing the secretary of state to take different action would be unlawful. Now, the lawsuit attempted to also remove him from the general election ballot, and the judge said that the issue would have to be addressed later (which makes sense, he’s not even the Republican nominee officially yet): > The lawsuit also asked the court to consider removing Trump from the General Election ballot. The judge said in dismissing the case that it was premature to consider his removal but said a case could be brought closer to the election. My WAG is that the judge is saying the Republicans can nominate whoever they want to, regardless of whether or not that person is actually eligible to serve in office. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1043 "2024-01-30T21:44:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes. Likely to be appealed, though: Thanks for that. The article I read didn’t have any of those important details like why they declined to remove him (they don’t think they have the authority, but say the state court might). On to the state courts now. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1044 "2024-01-31T14:38:54Z")
NPR has an interesting story this morning, “does history support removing Donald Trump from the presidential ballot”. Short summary: historical records make clear that the 14th Amendment was intended to apply to future insurrections and to the office of the presidency itself. > **[Does history support removing Donald Trump from the presidential ballot?](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/31/1228067671/does-history-support-removing-donald-trump-from-the-presidential-ballot)** > > Colorado removed Trump from the ballot, and the Supreme Court will soon hear the case. Historians Jill Lepore and David Blight, who support Colorado's decision, talk to NPR's Steve Inskeep. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1045 "2024-01-31T14:50:49Z")
[20240126151819211\_23-719 Brief.pdf (supremecourt.gov)](https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/298895/20240126151819211_23-719%20Brief.pdf) a link to the brief written by historians. [Lawrence: Historians’ brief teaches Supreme Court 14th Amendment’s real history | Watch (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawrence-historians-brief-teaches-supreme-court-14th-amendment-s-real-history/vi-BB1hwroV) i watched this interview last night. very interesting, and indeed those who created the amendment were aiming square at any confederate, or future insurrectionist getting into any office from president on down. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1046 "2024-01-31T18:09:06Z")
Thanks for the link to their brief. Their top-line summary: > For historians, contemporary evidence from the decision-makers who sponsored, backed, and voted for the 14th Amendment is most probative. Analysis of this evidence demonstrates that decision-makers crafted Section 3 to cover the President and to create an enduring check on insurrection, requiring no additional action from Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1047 "2024-02-01T18:40:23Z")
I like how the scholars directly address the originalists on the Court: “For historians, contemporary evidence from the decision-makers who sponsored, backed, and voted for the 14th Amendment is most probative. Analysis of this evidence demonstrates that decision-makers crafted Section 3 to cover the President and to create an enduring check on insurrection, requiring no additional action from Congress. During the congressional debates, Senator Reverdy Johnson of Maryland, a Democratic opponent of the 14th Amendment, challenged sponsors as to why Section 3 omitted the President. Republican Senator Lot Morrill of Maine, an influential backer of congressional Reconstruction and the 14th Amendment, corrected the Senator. Morrill replied, “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office civil or military under the United States.’” Senator Johnson admitted his error; no other Senator questioned whether Section 3 covered the President.” So no need to guess whether the framers of the 14th Amendment intended to include the President or not. It’s right there in the Congressional Record. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1048 "2024-02-01T18:42:37Z")
Since you still seem to be editing as I write this, I’ll point out your quote tags aren’t working. I think you may no longer be able to add =NAME as you once could in vBulletin. ETA: It seems your previous problem was putting the close quote tag on a separate line. I was wrong about the quote=NAME not being allowed. It works. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1049 "2024-02-01T19:36:25Z")
This angle seemed promising a few weeks ago. Now everything’s ground to a halt, and looks like even some blue states that were considering this have decided to leave Trump on the primary ballots. Is it too early to conclude that nothing is going to come of all this? Or are there some shoes yet to drop? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1050 "2024-02-01T20:00:43Z")
Isn’t the Supreme Court still to drop? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1051 "2024-02-01T20:07:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Isn’t the Supreme Court still to drop ? I imagine so. When all this started breaking, I was imagining a domino effect that would play out one way or the other over a period of a few weeks. But I mean … if various the judges, justices, appeals courts, etc. can be expected to take several months apiece and in turn, well, then this all goes nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1052 "2024-02-01T20:08:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Is it too early to conclude that nothing is going to come of all this? Or are there some shoes yet to drop? I’m guessing that since this is a primary, the attitude of most of the states (even blue ones) is, “Let them nominate whatever knucklehead they want; not our circus, not our monkeys.” Once he gets nominated (I assume he will be) and we’re getting into the general election, then it’s a whole other ball game. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1053 "2024-02-01T20:10:20Z")
That plus waiting on SCOTUS to rule - ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1054 "2024-02-01T20:20:03Z")
Yeah, my gut feeling is that the SCOTUS ruling might have as much if not more of a direct impact on the general election than the primary, since I would assume that’s going to be their real concern here. But of course, any decision about disqualification _should_ influence the primaries, at least one would hope so. Let’s say they say Trump can’t serve as POTUS because he is disqualified unless the legislature votes to allow an exception. You’d think that the Republicans would choose on their own to remove him from consideration since they don’t want to field a guy in an election that can’t legally fill the position. But, eh, I gave up trying to predict them by this point. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1055 "2024-02-02T00:57:18Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > like how the scholars directly address the originalists on the Court: The problem is that “originalists” don’t actually care about original intent, they just care about their personal founding fathers fanfic. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1056 "2024-02-02T01:04:32Z")
Here’s the Amici brief by retired Federal Appellate Court Judge and H.W. Bush apointee, Michael Luttig et al. He has been outspoken in his criticism of Trump for a long time. He refers to Trump as a “Clear and Present Danger”. Pretty strong words, right? IANAL but his reasoning seems pretty sound. Its not too difficult to read through and is worth taking the time to do so. What do you actual lawyers think? How much impact can these friends of the court have? [20240129171610494\_23-719\_Amici Brief.pdf (supremecourt.gov)](https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/299107/20240129171610494_23-719_Amici%20Brief.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1057 "2024-02-02T16:31:17Z")
Another (deceased) conservative legal big gun being wheeled out: [Trump’s critics hope that Antonin Scalia can sway the Supreme Court in 14th Amendment fight](https://www.aol.com/news/antonin-scalia-could-thing-keeps-100030479.html) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1058 "2024-02-29T01:23:05Z")
Illinois, now: > ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1059 "2024-02-29T01:27:14Z")
The horses have been out of the barn a while, haven’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1060 "2024-02-29T04:31:26Z")
What would it take for the party faithful, the MAGA crowd, to ever change their minds about Dear Leader? Or are they too brainwashed? At one point, if ever, does a Republican voter come to the conclusion that Trump is just not worth it? I mean, I’ve heard lots from the dumb ones, but if there are any intelligent Trump loyalists out there, I’d like to hear what they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/1061 "2024-02-29T12:24:06Z")
At this point, only him wearing a tan suit in public or requesting mustard on a hamburger would ignite any sort of white-hot hate they could have for the guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=54)