# Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 11, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412 "2023-08-11T16:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/162 "2023-09-11T15:07:46Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > And if he’d succeeded, of course, he could use the government he runs to suppress any charges of insurrection. _Treason doth never prosper, what’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason._ - John Harington However: > [@slicedalone](#): > > it was only the failure of Trump’s insurrection attempt that might excuse him from the charge of leading an insurrection. A failed insurrection is still an insurrection, as amply demonstrated by the history of the United States, ca 1861-1865. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/163 "2023-09-11T15:41:06Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > So tell me specific things he could have done, but didn’t do, that constitute insurrection. Order the military to intervene on the side of the rioters? I don’t think his failure to do it makes it not insurrection; but it seems to me that that’s a fairly obvious thing that he didn’t do. I don’t think they’d have followed the order, and I suspect that Trump also thought, or at least feared, that they wouldn’t follow it and that that’s why he didn’t try it; but what actually happens in a lot of successful coups elsewhere is that some significant portion of the military takes action on the part of the insurrectionists, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/164 "2023-09-11T15:54:42Z")
Well, he did try to get the military to seize the voting machines but sensible Rudy talked him out of issuing the order, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/165 "2023-09-11T16:07:31Z")
There where reports (not sure how credible) that he tried to get his SS detail to take him to the insurrection. Not sure what in the hell he thought he would do. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/166 "2023-09-11T17:11:33Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I don’t think his failure to do it makes it not insurrection; but it seems to me that that’s a fairly obvious thing that he didn’t do. I don’t think they’d have followed the order, and I suspect that Trump also thought, or at least feared, that they wouldn’t follow it and that that’s why he didn’t try it; but what actually happens in a lot of successful coups elsewhere is that some significant portion of the military takes action on the part of the insurrectionists, isn’t it? My theory is that Trump just wanted the proceedings in Congress delayed long enough for his alternative electors to get certified. It was a delaying tactic. I don’t think he expected or even wanted anything like a military coup. Just chaos. Plus, I’m sure he loved seeing people riot on his behalf, that must have really stroked his ego. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/167 "2023-09-11T17:15:41Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > At what point does a SoS have standing? Selecting electors is a state function as per a few SCOTUS cases. If the state has chosen the SoS to administer the selection of electors then why would they not have standing? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/168 "2023-09-11T18:02:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > My theory is that Trump just wanted the proceedings in Congress delayed long enough for his alternative electors to get certified. It was a delaying tactic. Or have it turned over to a House vote. One vote per state, not representative. The electors where a delaying tactic, as was the insurrection. Muddy the waters as much as possible until the House votes on it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/169 "2023-09-11T18:31:55Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Or have it turned over to a House vote. Yes, good point. Even if the elector scheme didn’t work itself, it could have (in theory) confused things enough to prompt such a vote. I’m still sure that would never have happened, but Trump had guys telling him it could work. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/170 "2023-09-11T19:19:41Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m still sure that would never have happened, but Trump had guys telling him it could work. Yup. I can’t imagine that Trump could come up with such a scheme. I can imagine that he would easily be talked into it. And would do anything to stay in office. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/171 "2023-09-11T21:23:38Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > So tell me specific things he could have done, but didn’t do, that constitute insurrection. He could have taken a cab to the Capitol (after [his government driver refused](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108301900/witness-recalls-trump-lunging-for-the-wheel-when-told-he-couldnt-go-to-the-capit)) and joined the insurrectionists. When Ashli Babbitt fell, he could have commanded his supporters to continue the assault. Instead, after just one wounding (she died in hospital), they gave up the attempt to break into the largest legislative chamber. This is attributable to lack of leadership from the man they were trying to keep as America’s caudillo. By the preponderance of the evidence, I think DJT did try to overthrow the legal governmental system of the United States. But he did such a piss-poor job that there may be reasonable doubt. My real problem with the thread title idea is that there should be, in a democracy, an extremely high bar to disqualifying someone from running for office. And is you are going to have such a bar, there should be a much clearer legal mechanism for keeping the SOB off the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/172 "2023-09-11T21:45:13Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > there should be, in a democracy, an extremely high bar to disqualifying someone from running for office. And is you are going to have such a bar, there should be a much clearer legal mechanism for keeping the SOB off the ballot. We’re stuck with what we have. That it’s murky, or the law is too vaguely written, or it doesn’t say what we would like it to say, doesn’t equate to “He must go scot-free.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/173 "2023-09-11T21:53:34Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > My real problem with the thread title idea is that there should be, in a democracy, an extremely high bar to disqualifying someone from running for office. Attempting to overthrow the government by insurrection seems to be a very serious crime to me. How much higher a bar could you make it? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/174 "2023-09-11T22:02:15Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Would SCOTUS hear a case that’s technically a hypothetical at this point? Humm… if only there was some precedent for this… 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/175 "2023-09-11T22:03:46Z")
Here’s an interview with Michael Luttig that clarifies many of the positions he (and Lawrence Tribe) have put forth:[from the NYer](https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-constitutional-case-for-barring-trump-from-the-presidency) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/176 "2023-09-11T22:17:57Z")
What Trump didn’t do, was get convicted of the crime of sedition or of insurrection. He should be, but he hasn’t. I still say that, absent any other guidance in the Constitution or federal law, that’s the only standard that can be legally applied. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/177 "2023-09-11T22:34:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What Trump didn’t do, was get convicted of the crime of sedition or of insurrection. He should be, but he hasn’t. I still say that, absent any other guidance in the Constitution or federal law, that’s the only standard that can be legally applied There were half a dozen cases following the Civil War where people who were not convicted were kept out of office or lost one because of the amendment in question. So there is precedent that a conviction is not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/178 "2023-09-11T22:36:30Z")
Did the Confederates in question dispute those cases? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/179 "2023-09-11T22:46:00Z")
Everything I know about those half dozen cases is from this section of an [electoral-vote.com](http://electoral-vote.com) blog post: > **[The Fourteenth Amendment, Part II: Let Us Have Peace](https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2023/Items/Sep05-7.html)** > > Click on the map for the article BTW, I heartedly recommend reading [electoral-vote.com](http://electoral-vote.com) on a daily basis for those interested in US politics. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/180 "2023-09-11T22:55:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Selecting electors is a state function as per a few SCOTUS cases. If the state has chosen the SoS to administer the selection of electors then why would they not have standing? I think I used the wrong term of art. My question was, at what point can the suit take place? SCOTUS won’t hear hypothetical / moot cases, for example, so would a suit regarding someone who is currently not on any ballot even be heard? I know some suits have been filed already since I asked, but I still wonder how the courts would rule on this (very technical) point. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412/181 "2023-09-11T22:57:00Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Here’s an interview with Michael Luttig that clarifies many of the positions he (and Lawrence Tribe) have put forth:[from the NYer](https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-constitutional-case-for-barring-trump-from-the-presidency) That article says nothing about primary vs. general elections, but it sounds like a lot of Trump-skeptical Republicans are thinking of stopping him from getting on primary ballots: [The 14th Amendment plan to disqualify Trump, explained](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66690276) > [@](#): > > And in a joint statement last week, New Hampshire’s attorney general and secretary of state - both Republicans - said they were “carefully reviewing the legal issues involved”. > > The latter is particularly notable, as their state holds the distinction of being the first in the nation to vote in the Republican primary. > > The New Hampshire challenge is notably being touted by Bryant “Corky” Messner, a top Republican attorney who ran for the US Senate in 2020 with Mr Trump’s endorsement. > > . . . > > “If he ends up being the nominee of the Republican Party and he’s not disqualified, I’ll vote for him.” Also: [Ron Fein, the legal director for Free Speech For People, said that while a conviction “would not hurt” their argument, candidate eligibility challenges are “all designed to be filed before primary elections … on rapid time frames.”](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/05/trump-14th-amendment-ballot/) My guess is that few GOP elected office holders, in their heart of hearts, actually like Trump. Maybe this is a bigger threat to him than I thought. In terms of the legitimacy of the 2024 presidential winner, stopping a candidate from being on primary ballots is much less of a concern than stopping them at the general election level. I may warm up to this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/various-states-including-colorado-determine-trump-is-disqualified-from-holding-office/988412.md?page=10)