Various states, including Colorado, determine Trump is disqualified from holding office

Looking at a less highly-charged example: Ted Cruz. Suppose someone had challenged his eligibility, arguing he was not a « natural born citizen », as required by the Constitution.

The facts there are pretty clear:

  • Ted was born in Canada and was a Canadian citizen from the moment of his birth.
  • His mom was a US citizen, his dad was not, at the moment of his birth.
  • Under US citizenship law, he was a US citizen at birth, by virtue of his mother’s citizenship.

Question: given those facts, is Ted a « natural born citizen »? That term is not defined by the constitution, but it is a legal term.

A court faced with Ted’s case would have to decide the legal meaning of the term, independently of the facts of the case, and then apply that meaning to the facts.

Since that analysis requires legal determinations, that part of a trial court’s decision would be subject to appellate review.

So Robert E. Lee could have run for Congress in 1866? Not convicted of insurrection, so his actions in the late unpleasantness wouldn’t matter?

As I understand it, yes.

Wait, when was the 14th Amendment passed?

Sorry, meant to say in 1868. The 14th was ratified in July 1868, so would have applied to congressional elections in the fall of 1868.

For example, section 1 of the 14th Amendment creates rights to due process and equal protection of the law. Those rights can be enforced through the courts without any need for federal legislation.

Section 1 also provides that, generally, anyone born in the US is a citizen. No federal legislation is needed to implement that provision.

Section 3 is the insurrection disqualification clause. The issue is whether it stands on its own and can be enforced by the executive and the courts without the need for federal legislation, in the same way as the provisions of s. 1.

Wait, I must have missed that: Did they, in fact, take up the case? I haven’t seen any news about that.

It was reported yesterday.

When they scan the defense table, Habba always assumes the determined pursed duckface. That’s how you can tell she’s a serious lawyer.

Not comparable. The POTUS is the president of the entire country. Any individual abortion affects at most a handful of people.

Didn’t say I agreed with the idea. Just that I could see the court punting in that way.

Sure, but for the Court to go that way, they have to consider that sort of issue, in analysing s. 3.

Not even remotely close. The rules on eligibility is in the US Constitution. Saying the eligibility requirement can vary from state to state is like saying the popular election of Senators can vary from state to state and if your state legislature wanted they could appoint the Senators.

There is another way SCOTUS can punt. They can say it is up to Congress but Congress already acquitted Trump of insurrection therefore he is eligible. Don’t blame us, blame Congress.

This would not surprise me. However, nowhere in the 14th does it give Congress the power to determine eligibility. For the SCOTUS to do so would require citing the MSU* Law book.

*Making Shit Up.

Or call it a political question

This is what confuses me, that in the aftermath of the civil war they would have intended individual states to determine their own candidates eligibility.

In any event, he could be on the ballot and even win the contest. He just wouldn’t be able to hold office—the real issue at stake here.

A question (genuine, not meant rhetorically) for those who argue that his disqualification under 14A should be decided at a state level, with individual states potentially coming to different determinations - what exactly happens if half the states decide he’s disqualified, but he wins anyway? The implications of accepting the absence of any consistent federal process to determine disqualification are now fully manifest. Must the states who deemed him disqualified under 14A now just shrug and accept that a Constitutionally disqualified candidate is their president? If so, how was it ever meaningful to say that the states were separately empowered to make this determination in the first place?

Perhaps those states do not send electors to congress for certification at all. Or send electors for the qualified candidate with the most votes

But yes if one state only (CO) deems Trump ineligible, and he wins anyway, there does not seem there is much they can do.

Not that the principle is any different, but it could be many states, not just one.

It seems to me that this undermines the idea that no process at the federal level is empowered to “tell the states what to do” with respect to 14A. Either some kind of federal determination binds all states at the outset, or a federal determination (the election result) binds all states at the outcome. You cannot avoid one or the other. And it certainly feels inconsistent with the principle that it’s up to a state to determine 14A disqualification if that state might eventually be forced to accept a president that they have disqualified.