# Vatican City demonym **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443 "2014-07-30T20:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/21 "2014-07-31T04:08:26Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Buggerer? > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Fugitive **Moderator Note** You guys should be aware that religious jabs are not permitted in GQ. No warning issued, but enough with this kind of remark. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/22 "2014-07-31T04:09:17Z")
Vaticander. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/23 "2014-07-31T04:34:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And it would have to have been a visitor who gave birth unexpectedly and was unable to get to a hospital. Not necessarily a visitor–some of the lay administrators live with their families, and a few of the senior Swiss guards are married. I have **no idea** what the ratio of home-based to hospital births has been in Rome over the years since the Vatican City was created (1929), but I have to think that births were more common in earlier decades and are probably not unknown even today. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/24 "2014-07-31T04:41:39Z")
There are a few children living in the Vatican - the offspring of married Swiss Guards - and it’s not impossible that some have been born there. If they would otherwise be stateless, a person born in the Vatican has Italian Citizenship. (The Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Holy See, which created the Vatican City State, provides for this.) But in fact in most cases the children concerned will have acquired the nationality of their parents. The Swiss Guards are, unsurprisingly, Swiss, and the child of a Swiss citizen is a Swiss citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/25 "2014-07-31T05:07:54Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > aren’t they VC? Pajamas, robes - as long as there’s black sleepwear involved. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/26 "2014-07-31T16:19:33Z")
Today, it’s a moot point, since Vatican City is tiny and has no citizens who are supposed to be reproducing. But for centuries, until the unification of ITaly in 1861, the Vatican also controlled the “Papal States,” which made up a nice chunk of what’s now Italy. Was there a term THEN for the tens of thousands of lay people living ordinary lives in the Papl States? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/27 "2014-07-31T17:12:51Z")
If you lived in a city or village that was part of the papal states, you would refer to yourself as coming from your city. “I am a Roman”. Also note that being born in the territory of a country does not automatically make you a citizen of that country. Yes, in the United States it does, but in most European countries it does not. But plenty of other countries you are only a citizen if your parent(s) are citizens. Just being born in France or the UK or Germany won’t make you a citizen of those countries unless your parent is also a citizen or permanent resident. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/28 "2014-07-31T17:40:01Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Today, it’s a moot point, since Vatican City is tiny and has no citizens who are supposed to be reproducing. > > But for centuries, until the unification of ITaly in 1861, the Vatican also controlled the “Papal States,” which made up a nice chunk of what’s now Italy. > > Was there a term THEN for the tens of thousands of lay people living ordinary lives in the Papl States? Apparently you would have been a Papalino. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/29 "2014-07-31T18:55:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Apparently you would have been a Papalino. Seriously, or is that a joke? Of course, Bologna was part of the Papal States, and people there probably would have called themselves Bolognese, rather than identifying as part of the Papal States. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/30 "2014-07-31T19:08:35Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Seriously, or is that a joke? > > Of course, Bologna was part of the Papal States, and people there probably would have called themselves Bolognese, rather than identifying as part of the Papal States. Yeah, but people are allowed to have multiple identifications. Like take your average Texan; if asked where he’s from he may sometimes say “America,” and sometimes say “Texas,” depending on context or how he wants to come across. Couldn’t a Bolognese person have a second name to identify himself? Like M-A-Y-E-R? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/31 "2014-07-31T19:09:19Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > These categories include the Pope, some but not all cardinals, some lower clergy, the Swiss Guards, and a few lay administrators and their families. “These FOUR categories include the Pope, some but not all cardinals, some lower clergy and a few lay administrators and their families…, sorry, these FIVE categories include the Pope, some but not all cardinals, some lower clergy , a few lay administrators and their families and a Pope Emeritus…, sorry these SIX categories include…” ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/32 "2014-07-31T19:14:05Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > …Most Vatican citizens live outside the Vatican. And while a small number of people live in the Vatican, most of those who do are not Vatican citizens - only the most senior Vatican posts carry Vatican citizenship. Does Vatican citizenship actually confer any significant benefits, or is it mostly for show and as a trophy? Obviously, anyone authorized to work in the Vatican is going to have to have been given the appropriate visas anyway, so what’s the advantage to gaining full Vatican citizenship? Tax breaks? Are there public elections that anyone with Vatican citizenship can vote in? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/33 "2014-07-31T19:14:06Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Today, it’s a moot point, since Vatican City is tiny and has no citizens who are supposed to be reproducing. Sigh. Not true, read posts #23 and #24. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/34 "2014-07-31T19:16:54Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …Couldn’t a Bolognese person have a second name to identify himself? Like > > M-A-Y-E-R? There was once an incident in Rome a few years ago where a person was arrested at a checkpoint on suspicion of possessing forged identity documents. It turns out that his ID was completely Bologna. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/35 "2014-07-31T19:47:58Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Sigh. Not true, read posts #23 and #24. Yes, but just being born in Vatican City doesn’t make you a citizen of Vatican City. Being born in Italy doesn’t give you Italian citizenship either: [Italian nationality law - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/36 "2014-07-31T20:20:40Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > There are a few children living in the Vatican - the offspring of married Swiss Guards - and it’s not impossible that some have been born there. If they would otherwise be stateless, a person born in the Vatican has Italian Citizenship. (The Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Holy See, which created the Vatican City State, provides for this.) But in fact in most cases the children concerned will have acquired the nationality of their parents. The Swiss Guards are, unsurprisingly, Swiss, and the child of a Swiss citizen is a Swiss citizen. ISTR seeing a documentary a few years back about the Swiss Guards. One of the Guard officers was married to an American woman so, if that couple happened to have a child while in the Vatican, the child would also have US citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/37 "2014-07-31T20:38:21Z")
“Vatican” is already an adjective. Why wouldn’t Vatican _people_ live in Vatican city? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/38 "2014-07-31T21:09:47Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Fact: the Vatican City has 5.9 Popes per square mile or 2.3 Popes per square kilometer, or double that if Benedict is around. Living Popes, you mean. More like 547 per sq mile if you count the dead ones in the total. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/39 "2014-07-31T21:24:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Living Popes, you mean. More like 547 per sq mile if you count the dead ones in the total. Well if you count the Antipopes buried there (if any), do they cancel out like if you averaged in a -1? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443/40 "2014-07-31T21:29:27Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Well if you count the Antipopes buried there (if any), do they cancel out like if you averaged in a -1? No, the dead popes are negative popes. Antipopes are imaginary: _i_Pope. Not to be confused with the iPope, which is scheduled to be released at Vatican III and less vulnerable to crises than the Popes Catholic (PCs). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vatican-city-demonym/694443.md?page=3)