# Veep announcement \[Romney picks Paul Ryan\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157 "2012-08-11T03:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/221 "2012-08-12T04:14:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …Also, less attractively, [Ryan is] a huge fan of St. Ayn of Leningrad. Until he found out she was an atheist, apparently. Clever little vixen, keeping that hid… You’ve probably already seen this: [http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AynRandVersusJesus.jpg](http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AynRandVersusJesus.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/222 "2012-08-12T04:20:47Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > It actually went down from 2009 to 2010. $3.51 trillion in outlays to $3.46 tillion. 2011 went back up to $3.6 trillion. Spending has basically been flat under Obama, although at historically very high levels. > > As to what needs to be “on the table”, Obama did put entitlements on the table. You may have heard of the “grand bargain” in 2011 that fell apart - it included smaller COLAs for SS and raising the Medicare eligibility age. It was somewhere between 3-to-1 and 4-to-1 spending cuts to tax increases. But Boehner couldn’t pull it off and the Administration got scared that their base would crucify them if they didn’t get more in revenues in exchange for touching the third rails. > > I also notice you left the third largest budgetary department off your list of things that “move the needle” - you know, the one Romney actually wants to _increase_ spending on. You mean defense? Bring it on. It should be on the table as well. Between Medicare, Medicaid, SS and defense, that’s about 2/3 of the budget, last I checked. And the modest drop from 2009 to 2010 notwithstanding, we are still closing in on $4 trillion. And you’re making the same “tit for tat” mistake. It’s not about giving up more taxes in some fair proportion, not if we don’t significantly overhaul entitlements. “We gave up something, now you give up something” doesn’t do shit. We have an unsustainable model. It needs to be redesigned, drastically. Ryan is one of the few people willing to acknowledge this. Let’s eliminate “waste.” Let’s raise taxes on the wealthy. Fine. If that’s where we stop, we’re still heading for the cliff. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/223 "2012-08-12T04:33:57Z")
I, and the CBO, disagree. Under current law, the deficit drops to $200 billion in 2022. That’s if Congress does nothing. It will verage 1.5% od GDP fom 2013-2022. [http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42905](http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42905) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/224 "2012-08-12T04:36:44Z")
Well, darn that Obama and his Social Security! When did he sneak that in on us? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/225 "2012-08-12T04:38:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You’ve probably already seen this: [http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AynRandVersusJesus.jpg](http://www.theliberaloc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AynRandVersusJesus.jpg) Is it just me or do so many lame portraits of Jesus make him look totally gay? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/226 "2012-08-12T04:41:07Z")
Well, at least Ryan would approve. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/227 "2012-08-12T05:32:12Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think Romney will be lured to pick Ryan for the money. The right really wants Ryan, and I can imagine big spenders on the right telling Romney that if he goes bold with Ryan, he’ll have more money than Satan himself at his disposal. This is persuasive. I hadn’t thought of that. And you called this before the announcement? > [@adaher](#): > > Personally, I think it’s a good thing. I like elections where the public sends an unambiguous message. If Romney/Ryan wins, then there’s clearly a mandate to cut entitlements. Well, we’ll see. It’s hard to read a presidential contest as a referendum, with everything else going on outside that issue. But yeah. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Romney just said, “welcome the next PRESIDENT of the United States, Paul Ryan” > [@Enkel](#): > > I saw an interesting comment that Romney may have conceded defeat and so is setting Ryan up for a 2016 run. Yeah, I thought of that. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When was the last time a Republican nominee had underwater approval ratings? Never in the history of modern polling. Really? Wow. > **[Paul Ryan on the Issues](https://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/Paul_Ryan_Health_Care.htm)** > [@ontheissues.org](#): > > Paul Ryan on Energy & Oil > Click here for 20 full quotes on Energy & Oil OR background on Energy & Oil. > Voted YES on opening Outer Continental Shelf to oil drilling. (May 2011) > Voted YES on barring EPA from regulating greenhouse gases. (Apr 2011) > Voted NO on enforcing limits on CO2 global warming pollution. (Jun 2009) > Voted NO on tax credits for renewable electricity, with PAYGO offsets. (Sep 2008) > Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (May 2008) > Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008) > Voted NO on investing in homegrown biofuel. (Aug 2007) > Voted YES on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007) > Voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007) > Voted NO on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. (Jun 2006) > Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refinieries. (Jun 2006) > Voted YES on authorizing construction of new oil refineries. (Oct 2005) > Voted NO on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy. (Jun 2004) > Voted NO on implementing Bush-Cheney national energy policy. (Nov 2003) > Voted NO on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001) > Voted NO on prohibiting oil drilling & development in ANWR. (Aug 2001) > Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000) > Rated 0% by the CAF, indicating opposition to energy independence. (Dec 2006) > Bar greenhouse gases from Clean Air Act rules. (Jan 2009) > Drill the Outer Continental Shelf; & license new nuke plants. (Mar 2011) That’s plenty of reason for me. Wants to keep subsidizing fossil fuels, but not renewables. And he voted to ban family planning funding in foreign aid. (May 2001) Still, I think Romney may pull it out. Paul Ryan’s such a horrible candidate from a lefty point of view that the Democrats may get complacent. And Ryan is reasonably personable, and could win over people who are easily won over by the man-pretty, and those freaky pale blue eyes. They creep me out, but there is presumably a base for that. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/228 "2012-08-12T12:29:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Which plan? IIUC there are a few versions already voted (or dead in the senate) and later modified, and if it is the one Krauthammer reviewed: > > [http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa\_fact\_lizza#ixzz23IeKS9k1](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa_fact_lizza#ixzz23IeKS9k1) [There you go.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147287/Americans-Divided-Ryan-Obama-Deficit-Plans.aspx?version=print) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/229 "2012-08-12T12:48:31Z")
Well, much as I dislike what I know of Paul Ryan’s stances on issues and budget proposals, I have to say this much for him: like any politician, he made a bunch of campaign promises, but unlike them he did do seven of nine. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/230 "2012-08-12T12:50:46Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Well, if it matters (which it probably doesn’t), it’s worth pointing out that senior (65+) liked Ryan’s/the Republican’s plan than they did Obama’s/the Democrat’s plan. [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79607.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79607.html) Bullshit! They hated it. I wish you guys could just stop spouting false statements. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/231 "2012-08-12T12:55:12Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Well, much as I dislike what I know of Paul Ryan’s stances on issues and budget proposals, I have to say this much for him: like any politician, he made a bunch of campaign promises, but unlike them he did do seven of nine. > > 😃 That’s a different Ryan. You think Romney would pick the sex club guy for his VP? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/232 "2012-08-12T13:34:51Z")
I’m still considering this development, but from this thread it looks like it’s solid in one respect at least: shifting the debate to Obama’s weakest ground, the economy (at least insofar as the deficit, and by extension all of fiscal policy, applies to that). Whatever Paul’s weaknesses, I imagine the Obama team will have to scramble a bit to adjust tactics. And as Sun Tzu would acknowledge, forcing the enemy to meet you on your own terms is at least half the battle. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/233 "2012-08-12T13:43:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Let me post one good thing about Ryan > > > [@](#): > > > > …he’s notably further to the left on the issue of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender rights than the base of the party. He broke with a lot of his party to support the Employee Non-Discrimination Act in 2007. He explained his reasoning for the vote in this way: “They [his gay friends] didn’t roll out of bed one morning and choose to be gay. That’s who they are.” > > –[the only good thing I found](http://news.yahoo.com/5-things-mitt-doesnt-want-know-paul-ryan-162758609.html): > **[Paul Ryan on Gay Rights: 'I Don't Know Why We Are Talking About This'](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-gay-rights_b_1768962?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics)** > > Mitt Romney's running mate is a man who, like Romney himself, once supported gay rights -- and I do mean just one time -- only to run far away when he needed to genuflect before cultural conservatives. > [@](#): > > Mitt Romney’s running mate is a man who, like Romney himself, once supported gay rights – and I do mean just one time – only to run far away when he needed to genuflect before cultural conservatives. > [@](#): > > All of that has added up to a a big fat zero, consistently, from the Human Rights Campaign on its congressional scorecard, except for the session in which Ryan voted for ENDA, when he scored a 10 out of 100. (Predictably, a fleeting 10 rating is enough to send validation-starved gay Republicans into spasms of delight over the choice of Ryan as Romney’s running mate.) ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/234 "2012-08-12T13:44:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You poor dear, here, let me get those shoelaces for you. Mind if I keep them? Little hobby of mine… Hmm… you’re not the guy that used to run around Wash DC tackling women in order to rip their shoes off and smell their feet… are you? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/235 "2012-08-12T14:00:23Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I, and the CBO, disagree. Under current law, the deficit drops to $200 billion in 2022. That’s if Congress does nothing. It will verage 1.5% od GDP fom 2013-2022. [The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2012 to 2022](http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42905) That refers to the _budget_ deficit, do you realize that? That says that our current almost $16 trillion in debt will only have $200 billion added to it in the year 2022–plus all the intervening budget deficits that will push the debt up to, I don’t know, some number they may need to invent. That is better than the $1.1 trillion the current budget will contribute to the national debt, to be sure, but it’s still a red number in a long, uninterrupted line of red numbers that lead back to an already unsustainable level of debt. Fiscal sanity does not that way lie. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/236 "2012-08-12T14:17:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79607.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79607.html) > > Bullshit! They hated it. I wish you guys could just stop spouting false statements. Roses are red Violets are blue You should check out Post 22… 8. (Yeah, so that didn’t rhyme. Oh well.) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/237 "2012-08-12T14:18:59Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > That refers to the _budget_ deficit, do you realize that? That says that our current almost $16 trillion in debt will only have $200 billion added to it in the year 2022–plus all the intervening budget deficits that will push the debt up to, I don’t know, some number they may need to invent. That is better than the $1.1 trillion the current budget will contribute to the national debt, to be sure, but it’s still a red number in a long, uninterrupted line of red numbers that lead back to an already unsustainable level of debt. Fiscal sanity does not that way lie. Not only that, but “current law” assumes that ALL the Bush tax cuts will expire. That’s something that not even the Dems agreed want to happen. So we use pretend numbers and still come up with a scenario where the debt is increasing dramatically for the next ten years and still adding to the debt. Everyone says that Keynesian economics allows for deficits and that we should quit complaining. But everyone always leaves off the second part of the theory: That in normal or good years, the budget should be balanced or have a surplus to use to pay down the money you borrowed in the bad years. The interest that we have to pay on the debt is theft from the next generation who will have to pay for what we have consumed. It has to be gotten under control. If that means that social security or medicare or defense spending has to be scaled back, then I’m glad that we have a candidate who is telling the hard facts instead of misleading with numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/238 "2012-08-12T14:31:24Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Roses are red > Violets are blue > You should check out > Post 22… 8. > > (Yeah, so that didn’t rhyme. Oh well.) If only you had been able to offer the content of 228 at the time you offered post 217, it wouldn’t have had such an air of fecal matter around it. As it stands, you selected one poll to support that seems to be at odds with a host of subsequent polling - see the link to politico that i have provided above. Does it really seem likely to you that seniors would favor a plan that does away with Medicare? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/239 "2012-08-12T14:40:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Does it really seem likely to you that seniors would favor a plan that does away with Medicare? But the plan doesn’t do away with Medicare for current seniors. Further, if they can be convinced that the alternative is better for their children, then of course they will support it. Here’s my problem which may turn into a legal issue. Ever since I started work at age 16, I’ve paid Medicare and Social Security taxes. The promise made then was that I could receive Medicare at 65 and would receive Social Security at age 65 (or age 62 with reduced benefits) That was the “debt” that the government incurred to me when I began paying. How can they now raise the age for SS or Medicare (or replace Medicare with a different system) when they promised something different? Isn’t it a breach of a contract or at minimum “questioning” the debt owed to me under the 14th amendment? It would seem to me that the Ryan plan would have to start with young people who have yet to pay a dime into either of these taxes. And I say this as a supporter of Ryan’s plan, but it seems unfair to change the rules once something’s been promised. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/240 "2012-08-12T14:50:07Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Roses are red > Violets are blue > You should check out > Post 22… 8. > > (Yeah, so that didn’t rhyme. Oh well.) Actually the bottom line (and it is at Gallup in that case) is that: > [@](#): > > Americans give equal support to the specific long-term budget plans recently issued by the Republican House Budget Committee Chairman Ryan and President Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=13)