# Veep announcement \[Romney picks Paul Ryan\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157 "2012-08-11T03:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/241 "2012-08-12T15:05:55Z")
Also IMHO I do think that in this case we are seeing early “people doesn’t know the devilish details yet” polling, and I do think that in this case Krauthammer is correct, once those details and ideas of Ryan are known many independents will not agree and the numbers are bound to become more favorable to Obama. For example the \*\*further \*\*tax breaks to the wealthy idea will not and it is not showing Ryan to be convincing. Specially the yahoo part that still insists that \*\*more \*\*tax breaks for the rich are needed for them to create more jobs, (Where are they if that was the case after more than 10 years of the rich getting them?) That idea is getting boos from the people they do need to convince to win this. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/h5kgnE1Xvec/hqdefault.jpg "Paul Ryan gets booed for supporting wealthy tax breaks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kgnE1Xvec) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/242 "2012-08-12T15:09:51Z")
That’s a good point brought up earlier. Ryan’s plan is very unpopular. At least until you put it up next to Obama’s, in which case it holds its own. Now what exactly is Obama’s? ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/243 "2012-08-12T15:43:45Z")
**This could be just the break the McCain Campaign has been waiting for!** 🆒 c’mon guys, you let it go 242 responses? slackers. Seriously though … picking Ryan seems like a play to the right. I’m thinking that was not as good a play as one up the middle could have been. The right is sown up, regardless of Romney’s personal weakness there. He could eat a baby on live TV, and the right will come out in droves to vote against Obama. It’s the middle that will decide the contest. That said, I do not underestimate the amount of stupid people who continually vote R, against their interests. That, combined with the disenfranchisement factor … and I still wouldn’t place any bets on Obama winning. After all, this is a country that RE-elected GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/244 "2012-08-12T16:15:25Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Seniors like conservatives. That’s just how it is. The more conservative someone is, the better. They’re easily the single voting block in the country whose votes are the most out of line with their interests. I blame dementia. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Bullshit. And you can stick your “dementia” comment where the sun don’t shine, junior. Negative comments about groups are allowed here, but crass generalizations like this don’t contribute much to the debate. And personal insults are not allowed at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/245 "2012-08-12T16:29:29Z")
The good **Chef** is defending men of mature years and sound judgement from ignorant, hormone addled puppies! An onion on my belt! Yes, proudly! A fannypack? Never! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/246 "2012-08-12T16:35:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a good point brought up earlier. Ryan’s plan is very unpopular. At least until you put it up next to Obama’s, in which case it holds its own. Now what exactly is Obama’s? [Sigh …](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_Barack_Obama) Now, care to provide a link to your guy’s, so we can see for ourselves? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/247 "2012-08-12T16:55:09Z")
[Here, I’ll help:](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/romneys-tax-plan-defies-the-rules-of-math.html?_r=1) > [@](#): > > Twelve years later, Mitt Romney, the presumptive Republican nominee, claims his far deeper tax cuts would have a price tag of exactly zero dollars. He has no intention of submitting his tax plan to the committee or anywhere else that might conduct a serious analysis… > > He has made his economic plan the fundamental basis of his candidacy, and yet with the Republican convention just two weeks away, we know next to nothing of the plan’s details. The extreme cuts proposed by his new running mate, Paul Ryan, are far more hard-edged, making Mr. Romney’s mathematically impossible promises look vague and shopworn by comparison. > > For example, Mr. Romney wants to keep all the Bush tax cuts, then cut taxes much further, particularly for the rich, but he says the plan won’t grow the deficit by a dime. He won’t say how he will accomplish this — there are no real numbers in his plan beyond a vague pledge to eliminate some loopholes… > > He promises to cut nondefense spending by 5 percent, but won’t tell voters what programs that will affect. He wants to repeal all of President Obama’s regulations that burden the economy, but won’t say which ones. And he pledges to eliminate health care reform, but won’t discuss how or even whether he would replace it… > > The experts at the Tax Policy Center estimated that this would cost $456 billion a year, starting in 2015. > > But Mr. Romney said the cuts would be “revenue neutral” and cost nothing because they would be paid for by ending tax breaks and loopholes. He never identified those tax breaks, and now we know why — the experts concluded that there aren’t enough loopholes in the tax code to balance out the cuts. Following Mr. Romney’s plan would mean ending popular deductions for mortgage interest and charitable contributions, which would wind up raising taxes on the middle class, while the rich would still enjoy the benefits of an income-tax cut larger than the deductions they would lose. There’s more, but that’s enough. So the voters will flock to support it (whatever the hell it may be, if anything) … _why_? ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/248 "2012-08-12T17:16:52Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > [Paul Ryan on the Issues](http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/Paul_Ryan_Health_Care.htm) That’s plenty of reason for me. Wants to keep subsidizing fossil fuels, but not renewables. And he voted to ban family planning funding in foreign aid. (May 2001) :dubious: I have to wonder whether Ryan vetoed these bills because 1. He was fundamentally opposed to the goals of the bills 2. He was opposed to the miscellaneous stuff thrown into the bills (e.g. pet projects, pork, etc.) 3. He was opposed to the means by which the bills would accomplish their goals 4. Democrats wanted these bills to be passed 5. He was influenced by external entities - e.g. corporations offering him money for opposing bills 6. Some combination of the above factors A more meaningful analysis of Ryan’s political stances would entail a look at what bills Ryan himself has proposed or backed. We have the Ryan budget, for one. Any more? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/249 "2012-08-12T17:19:17Z")
Or 4. Because the Democrats wanted it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/250 "2012-08-12T18:16:46Z")
Just concluded stump speech. Romney said (paraphrasing): If a kid goes to school and makes the honor roll, sure he got there by riding a publicly funded school bus. But I credit him more for making the honor roll than the bus driver who drove him there. If a young man goes to a trade school and improves his skills and gets a better job, sure he drove to the trade school on the public roads, but I credit him more than government. Game on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/251 "2012-08-12T18:28:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Just concluded stump speech. Romney said (paraphrasing): > > If a kid goes to school and makes the honor roll, sure he got there by riding a publicly funded school bus. But I credit him more for making the honor roll than the bus driver who drove him there. > > If a young man goes to a trade school and improves his skills and gets a better job, sure he drove to the trade school on the public roads, but I credit him more than government. > > Game on. 🙂 That’s so dumb, it almost qualifies as a forfeit, right out of the gate. Because, you know, there wouldn’t BE a school to HAVE an honor roll at, for that kid to attend, without public funds. Ditto the trade school. No matter how good you are, you can’t climb a ladder if \*there is no goddamned ladder. \*:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/252 "2012-08-12T18:32:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > That’s so dumb, it almost qualifies as a forfeit, right out of the gate. > > Because, you know, there wouldn’t BE a school to HAVE an honor roll at, for that kid to attend, without public funds. Ditto the trade school. > > No matter how good you are, you can’t climb a ladder if \*there is no goddamned ladder. \*:rolleyes: So just to be clear, you think that the bus driver and the taxpayers for providing the public road deserve the credit instead of the students? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/253 "2012-08-12T18:46:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So just to be clear, you think that the bus driver and the taxpayers for providing the public road deserve the credit instead of the students? AFAIK Obama’s point was that \*\*all \*\*deserve recognition, what we are discussing here is actually a Republican propaganda point that never actually took place. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/254 "2012-08-12T18:51:17Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So just to be clear, you think that the bus driver and the taxpayers for providing the public road deserve the credit instead of the students? I has come to see that this is a question that falls in a conservative blind spot. They cannot conceive of this issue in any way other than relative proportion or worse, an either/or matter as to the assignment of credit. jtgain shows us both in one single package. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/255 "2012-08-12T18:55:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I has come to see that this is a question that falls in a conservative blind spot. They cannot conceive of this issue in any way other than relative proportion or worse, an either/or matter as to the assignment of credit. > > jtgain shows us both in one single package. So, what about the 16 year old kid that drops out of high school. Should the bus driver get part of the blame? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/256 "2012-08-12T18:55:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > AFAIK Obama’s point was that \*\*all \*\*deserve recognition… His point was that people succeed within the context of the society in which they’re striving, therefore the American social structure built out of the New Deal and Great Society programs has led to greater success for businesses and individuals, therefore those programs and that policy focus should be protected from the type of fiscal nihilism currently being promoted by the Republican Party. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/257 "2012-08-12T18:58:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > AFAIK Obama’s point was that \*\*all \*\*deserve recognition, what we are discussing here is actually a Republican propaganda point that never actually took place. Obama’s point was that businesses don’t exist in a vacuum so they can damn well help pay for the infrastructure to keep them running. All the faux outrage over “You didn’t build that” is just the Republican’s desperate attempts to continue to paint Obama as a socialist despite enormous evidence to the contrary. As a result, you get pablum like Romney’s stump speech instead of, say, explanations of why his tax policy actually raises taxes on everyone except those people in his own tax bracket. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/258 "2012-08-12T19:03:23Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So, what about the 16 year old kid that drops out of high school. Should the bus driver get part of the blame? Not blame, but responsibility in the form of the taxes he pays, most GED centers where most of the dropouts end after finding how stupid it was to drop out in the first place, are also publicly funded. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/259 "2012-08-12T19:06:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So, what about the 16 year old kid that drops out of high school. Should the bus driver get part of the blame? I think it’s pretty self evident that poorly funded schools produce poorly educated students, so…yes. I know republicans hate to take responsibility for anyone but themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/260 "2012-08-12T19:38:02Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Don’t voters generally go with their gut? I’ve got nothing to back it up, but this is pretty much what I think. I don’t believe there are too many voters out there who sit down before election night, scouring the internet or piles of discarded newspapers, researching and ranking candidates on a scale from 1 to 100 on all of the issues before deciding whom to vote for. And campaigns put negative things about actual policy in ads, not so we will remember them specifically, but just to plant a seed of doubt in our minds or in an outright attempt to get us to despise the other guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=14)