# Veep announcement \[Romney picks Paul Ryan\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157 "2012-08-11T03:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/261 "2012-08-12T19:41:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Negative comments about groups are allowed here, but crass generalizations like this don’t contribute much to the debate. And personal insults are not allowed at all. Since when is “junior” an insult? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/262 "2012-08-12T19:46:10Z")
I linked to it earlier in the thread, but RCP has taken Wisconsin back into the toss-up category. So what do you guys think? Does Ryan as the VP pick make Wisconsin a purple state this year? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/263 "2012-08-12T19:49:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So just to be clear, you think that the bus driver and the taxpayers for providing the public road deserve the credit instead of the students? I believe the taxpayers supporting the school should get credit _ahead_ of the students. Not that the students don’t deserve credit, but you can’t do well at school _if there is no school._ The taxpayers have made the achievements of **all** the students possible. (Excepting, of course, the minority who chose their parents well - that is, chose parents who could afford to pay for quality schooling if there were no taxpayer-supported education.) ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/264 "2012-08-12T19:49:44Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So, what about the 16 year old kid that drops out of high school. Should the bus driver get part of the blame? OK, now you’re taking an already stupid GOP talking point to the point of vacuity. The bus driver is providing an \* opportunity \*, but there’s no guarantee that anyone will make the most of that opportunity. Sort of like the internet that the government initially invested in provides opportunities for people to broadcast their valid, incisive political opinions, but your post demonstrates that not everyone is taking advantage of that. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/265 "2012-08-12T19:53:32Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I linked to it earlier in the thread, but RCP has taken Wisconsin back into the toss-up category. > > So what do you guys think? Does Ryan as the VP pick make Wisconsin a purple state this year? Nate Silver is not impressed, fwiw. He thinks it’s risky with not a lot of reward. He thinks Portman or McDonnell would have been a better choice. He thinks Romney chose Ryan as a hail mary pass because Romney thought he was losing. [http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/11/a-risky-rationale-behind-romneys-choice-of-ryan/](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/11/a-risky-rationale-behind-romneys-choice-of-ryan/) Silver still has Wisconsin as a sure thing for Obama. Probably too soon to know for sure, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/266 "2012-08-12T19:59:48Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I linked to it earlier in the thread, but RCP has taken Wisconsin back into the toss-up category. > > So what do you guys think? Does Ryan as the VP pick make Wisconsin a purple state this year? Being that he’s been in office since 1999, he’s obviously popular in his own district. In order to offer an opinion on your question, I’d have to know how the rest of the state feels about him. But I see that Nevada is a toss-up also, with Obama leading by virtually the same as in Wisconsin (5.3 points). Didn’t you imply earlier that RCP made it a toss up again specifically because of Ryan? Maybe it simply comes down to the percentages, and I see that the spread went from 6 points to 5.4 on the 8th of August. ETA: This is just a long-winded way of saying that I don’t know why the vote in Wisconsin changed. Maybe because of Ryan, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/267 "2012-08-12T20:07:47Z")
It appears that my crediting Mr Ryan with a progressive view on gay rights was spoken a bit too soon. Mores’s the pity, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/268 "2012-08-12T20:11:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Since when is “junior” an insult? I think it is the extreme condescension in context, it does not mean that the word itself is an insult. I had to learn that recently in GD, hopefully the ones that are actually juniors do not think that therefore they can cry foul every time the word is used. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/269 "2012-08-12T20:20:38Z")
This thread is about the selection of Ryan, not the out of context “You didn’t build that.” quote right? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/270 "2012-08-12T21:07:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > . Or at least he did yesterday, we’ll have to see tomorrow. [Tomorrow comes a day too soon](http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/romney-ryan-ticket-out-of-touch-with-americans-on-lgbt-equality/). > [@GIGObuster](#): > > people like Reagan and Bush senior still listened to scientists The narrative is something along the lines that leftists were morally bankrupted by the failure of the Soviet Union and had to devise a new nefarious plot to interfere with the sacred Capitalist doctrine of private ownership of the means of production. They invented the threat of “global warming” wholecloth in order to get their inefficient grubby hands in the gears of the machinery of the job creator with their inspections, regulations and taxation. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/271 "2012-08-12T21:41:53Z")
Oh, neglected to mention: > [@brickbacon](#): > > Romney just said, “welcome the next PRESIDENT of the United States, Paul Ryan” Has anyone looked for other warning signs? You know, taking the VO falcon out of its display case for cleaning, making alterations to his will? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/272 "2012-08-12T21:56:45Z")
I think it was pointed before that congress was the thing that has much less support than the president has, as Ryan is learning, his record in congress is indeed an issue: [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/dems-try-to-discredit-ryans-deficit-cutting-clout.php](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/dems-try-to-discredit-ryans-deficit-cutting-clout.php) > [@](#): > > “[T]his was a guy who rubber stamped every aspect of the Bush economic policy, including not paying for two wars, a Medicare prescription plan, two big tax cuts,” Obama campaign adviser David Axelrod said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “And now he wants trillions of dollars of more budget busting tax cuts skewed to the wealthy. He really isn’t in a strong position to talk about this problem.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/273 "2012-08-12T22:00:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s a hugely risky pick. but if this works, it pays huge dividends for the GOP. If they win, they have a mandate to cut entitlements, because that will be what the election is about. If the election is about that (and now it is), they lose. And does that give Obama a mandate to protect them? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/274 "2012-08-12T22:03:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Just concluded stump speech. Romney said (paraphrasing): > > If a kid goes to school and makes the honor roll, sure he got there by riding a publicly funded school bus. But I credit him more for making the honor roll than the bus driver who drove him there. > > If a young man goes to a trade school and improves his skills and gets a better job, sure he drove to the trade school on the public roads, but I credit him more than government. > > Game on. 🙂 Nobody credits the bus driver _more_. That’s stupid. But the bus driver is still essential to the kid’s success, in a small way. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/275 "2012-08-12T22:16:21Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I’m still considering this development, but from this thread it looks like it’s solid in one respect at least: shifting the debate to Obama’s weakest ground, the economy (at least insofar as the deficit, and by extension all of fiscal policy, applies to that). Whatever Paul’s weaknesses, I imagine the Obama team will have to scramble a bit to adjust tactics. And as Sun Tzu would acknowledge, forcing the enemy to meet you on your own terms is at least half the battle. The campaign was already about the economy. It’s not like Romney has much to say on foreign policy, and the old Dems are weak argument went to the bottom of the sea with Osama’s body. What Romney has done is to change the focus from the economy and his amorphous solution to Ryan’s “let’s destroy the government” budget. Which Romney is already flip-flopping on. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/276 "2012-08-12T22:49:12Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Nobody credits the bus driver _more_. That’s stupid. > > But the bus driver is still essential to the kid’s success, in a small way. The bus driver was already paid for his contribution. As was everyone else. The difference between liberals and classical liberals is that liberals see everyone as part of one ‘community’, and that any success earned by an individual belongs, at least in part, to the larger community. Classical liberals see people as free individuals who _contract_ with other free people, and are therefore not obligated to the community at large. If I come up with a great idea for a machine, but I can’t weld, I must hire a welder. But I paid the welder an agreed-upon fee for his services, and therefore he has no further claim on me. If I then sell that machine for $1 million, it doesn’t matter that the welder only got $50. I may thank him for his help, but he doesn’t deserve a percentage of my profits unless my initial contract with him specified it. Further, classical liberals do not believe that the larger community can impose a debt on individuals because of existing infrastructure. I had no choice in whether my great grandparents spent their money to build a railroad, and therefore I have no obligation to share the profits I may incur in part because I could use that railroad - I’m only responsible for paying the negotiated fare of use, or for paying the taxes required to maintain it. Once I have done so, my obligation to the larger community ends. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/277 "2012-08-12T22:54:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The bus driver was already paid for his contribution. As was everyone else. Except that Republicans want to _cut_ funding. Which means bus drivers _stop getting paid_. _Teachers_ stop getting paid. Come on, man, it’s not that hard. That’s current US conservative thinking: that because the star student or the entrepreneur succeeded, then they would have succeeded with or without the infrastructure, and meanwhile the infrastructure is being used to prop up kids that aren’t succeeding. The infrastructure, therefore, is irrelevant or a drag on our pocketbooks, and needs to go. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/278 "2012-08-12T22:56:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The bus driver was already paid for his contribution. As was everyone else. > > The difference between liberals and classical liberals is that liberals see everyone as part of one ‘community’, and that any success earned by an individual belongs, at least in part, to the larger community. > > Classical liberals see people as free individuals who _contract_ with other free people, and are therefore not obligated to the community at large. If I come up with a great idea for a machine, but I can’t weld, I must hire a welder. But I paid the welder an agreed-upon fee for his services, and therefore he has no further claim on me. If I then sell that machine for $1 million, it doesn’t matter that the welder only got $50. I may thank him for his help, but he doesn’t deserve a percentage of my profits unless my initial contract with him specified it. > > Further, classical liberals do not believe that the larger community can impose a debt on individuals because of existing infrastructure. I had no choice in whether my great grandparents spent their money to build a railroad, and therefore I have no obligation to share the profits I may incur in part because I could use that railroad - I’m only responsible for paying the negotiated fare of use, or for paying the taxes required to maintain it. Once I have done so, my obligation to the larger community ends. Do you suppose that there’s a gene for “gratitude” that conservatives simply lack? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/279 "2012-08-12T23:03:59Z")
Well, Sam, as an American, I happen to think that there is something special about America and about my fellow Americans. It is something more than just the contemporaneous collocation of independent contractors. I know you’re not American, so perhaps you and the other classic liberals just can’t appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/280 "2012-08-12T23:11:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think it is the extreme condescension in context, it does not mean that the word itself is an insult. I had to learn that recently in GD, hopefully the ones that are actually juniors do not think that therefore they can cry foul every time the word is used. Reverse ageism is what I’m guilty of, then? I’m somewhat baffled by the intolerance of racism and curse words here, while allowing misogynistic and ageist remarks to go unchallenged. I have to wonder if **Quasi** finds the casual reference to dementia in the elderly as amusing as the person who used it? Or perhaps my humor switch got accidentally turned off this morning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=15)