# Veep announcement \[Romney picks Paul Ryan\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157 "2012-08-11T03:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/301 "2012-08-13T00:41:34Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You predicted 3:1. Then you came back with a favorability rating. The polling numbers in Florida prior to the Ryan pick showed a two percentage point difference between Romney and Obama. > > There’s just nothing empirical to support your hopeful outcomes. The prediction is “Seniors will support Romney and other Republicans significantly more than Obama and other Democrats on a national scale,” and “Seniors typically prefer the more conservative choice, especially this election cycle.” Do you disagree with that? I’m not particularly hopeful of that outcome (maybe you are?) but, there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/302 "2012-08-13T01:07:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Which Republican wants to eliminate public infrastructure or school bus drivers? I see Republicans that want to eliminate things like the Department of Educate, Commerce, HUD, and Energy, but not basic societal services. Funny. If you don’t think those departments provide basic societal services then it is pretty clear you have a piss poor understanding of what those departments and agencies of provide for our society. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/303 "2012-08-13T01:13:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Back to the topic of the thread: > > I’ve been spending a lot of time lately away from partisan web sites. Stepping back into them illustrates just how strong the echo-chamber effect is. For example, I look at the raw polls, and I see a pretty close race: Obama and Romney are close to being in a statistical dead heat. Then I go to a Republican web site, and everyone is yakking about how there’s no possible way Obama can win. I come here, and see threads discussing whether Romney is intentionally throwing the election because it’s so obvious that he has no chance at all to win. Obama has been steadily ahead in almost all polls for the entire campaign, he also leads in almost every single battleground state. 538 gives Romney slightly over a 20% chance to win, and math is about as non partisan as it gets. Just because your gut tells you the race is a dead heat does not make it so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/304 "2012-08-13T01:34:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’ve been spending a lot of time lately away from partisan web sites. Stepping back into them illustrates just how strong the echo-chamber effect is. For example, I look at the raw polls, and I see a pretty close race: Obama and Romney are close to being in a statistical dead heat. I guess you’re a one-man echo chamber, then, because right now, the RCP poll average has Obama up by 4.6%. Now if that was a single poll, you could say it was a statistical dead heat. But it’s an average of a bunch of recent polls. The popular vote, as of the most recent evidence available, is NOT a statistical dead heat: Obama is ahead. In the electoral college, the effect is even more pronounced, because Obama’s doing quite well in the swing states, thank you. Maybe Ryan will change all this. But if you see a statistical dead heat as of right now, you clearly need to have your eyeglasses/contacts prescription updated. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/305 "2012-08-13T01:37:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s a hugely risky pick. but if this works, it pays huge dividends for the GOP. If they win, they have a mandate to cut entitlements, because that will be what the election is about. If so, then the converse is also true: If Obama wins, he has a mandate to increase taxes on the wealthy, spend more to create jobs, and expand Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/306 "2012-08-13T01:42:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Just concluded stump speech. Romney said (paraphrasing): > > If a kid goes to school and makes the honor roll, sure he got there by riding a publicly funded school bus. But I credit him more for making the honor roll than the bus driver who drove him there. > > If a young man goes to a trade school and improves his skills and gets a better job, sure he drove to the trade school on the public roads, but I credit him more than government. > > Game on. 🙂 In 1960 George Romney, father of Mitt, was a candidate for the Republican nomination and the President of American Motors. In a period where GM, Ford, and Chrysler were bringing out large cars that were increasingly coming equipped with automatic transmissions, American Motors had introduced the Rambler, one of the first of what would later be classified az ‘compact cars’ and with standard 2-speed transmission. The political quip at the time was that Romney’s politics followed his engineering: “Think small and shift for yourself.” Like father, like son. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/307 "2012-08-13T01:43:32Z")
What’s funny to me is that Romney claims differences between Israeli and Palestinian success is due to differences in culture. How is that NOT a tacit admission that it’s not the individual doing it all? But you know what? That answer belongs in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/308 "2012-08-13T03:03:47Z")
I’m very happy about this pick. And I’m looking forward to having this long-overdue conversation about how the radical right wing tax and economic schemes have stolen trillions of dollars from our economy, hurled us deeper into debt than we needed to be, established a caste system they’re now positioning themselves to lord over, and destroyed the middle class in this country, forcing millions of working people onto taxpayer-funded programs. Yes, one of the two major political parties supports the welfare state: It’s the Republicans. Thank you, Mitt Romney for giving us a chance to prove once and for all how craven your party is. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/309 "2012-08-13T04:37:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The character of America has been changing pretty drastically in the past few years, and I honestly don’t know where the public is on this. They’re in the same place they’ve always been–they’re all for small government as long as it doesn’t take a dollar out of their pocket or reduce their services in any way. They want the government reduced to exactly those programs that affect them directly. That’s why it’s a great slogan to run on in the abstract but when it comes down to specifics it’s usually a loser. I hope you’re right that Ryan’s entry into the race raises the overall tone of the race, and I expect that it might. But the Ryan pick brings a lot of details into the discussion that are going to be hard to separate from any larger philosophical discussion. Nor should they be separated. They can try to sell the Republican vision for America as “small government” and “personal responsibility”, but the Ryan budget plan makes it clear that what they really mean is major Medicare cuts, giant tax cuts for those in the Romney bracket, and tax hikes for everybody else. > [@](#): > > ‘Community organizers’, on the other hand, exist by riling people up and convincing them that they are being wronged and that they are owed something they don’t have. They tell them they have a right to a better life, and if they aren’t getting it it’s because of greedy bad people in the world, and if only they would vote for an advocate, that person will use the lever of government to take by force what those greedy people would not give up voluntarily, and ‘give it back’ to the community, as if it was theirs in the first place. Out of curiosity, are you personally acquainted with anyone who works as a community organizer? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/310 "2012-08-13T05:49:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > ‘Community organizers’, on the other hand, exist by riling people up and convincing them that they are being wronged and that they are owed something they don’t have. They tell them they have a right to a better life, and if they aren’t getting it it’s because of greedy bad people in the world, and if only they would vote for an advocate, that person will use the lever of government to take by force what those greedy people would not give up voluntarily, and ‘give it back’ to the community, as if it was theirs in the first place. > [@DoctorJ](#): > > Out of curiosity, are you personally acquainted with anyone who works as a community organizer? Oh. My. G-d. I cannot _believe_ we’re still having this absurd debate because of reprehensible misrepresentations about what community organizing even _is_. > [@Barack Obama 1988](#): > > In theory, community organizing provides a way to merge various strategies for neighborhood empowerment. Organizing begins with the premise that (1) the problems facing inner-city communities do not result from a lack of effective solutions, but from a lack of power to implement these solutions; (2) that the only way for communities to build long-term power is by organizing people and money around a common vision; and (3) that a viable organization can only be achieved if a broadly based indigenous leadership — and not one or two charismatic leaders — can knit together the diverse interests of their local institutions. > > This means bringing together churches, block clubs, parent groups and any other institutions in a given community to pay dues, hire organizers, conduct research, develop leadership, hold rallies and education campaigns, and begin drawing up plans on a whole range of issues — **jobs, education, crime, etc.** Once such a vehicle is formed, it holds the power to make politicians, agencies and corporations more responsive to community needs. **Equally important, it enables people to break their crippling isolation from each other, to reshape their mutual values and expectations and rediscover the possibilities of acting collaboratively** — the prerequisites of any successful self-help initiative. > > By using this approach, the Developing Communities Project and other organizations in Chicago’s inner city have achieved some impressive results. \*\*Schools have been made more accountable-Job training programs have been established; housing has been renovated and built; city services have been provided; parks have been refurbished; and crime and drug problems have been curtailed. \*\*Additionally, plain folk have been able to access the levers of power, and a sophisticated pool of local civic leadership has been developed. The realities of Progressives’ views of what community is all about, and the critical role of empowering the people in them, are so diametrically opposite of what Sam Stone misrepresents them to be, it’s breathtaking. Breathtaking. And this is another great thing about an arrogant, short-sighted, fear-mongering tool like Paul Ryan being named as the vice presidential candidate: We get to prove once again how much better an America under Progressive values is than the third-world country he and his brethren have been marching us into for over 40 years now. Enough. We, The People are sick and tired of being yanked around by our noses; being lied to, manipulated, and used as pawns in a sick and twisted power grab by the wealthy elite in this country. They’ve stagnated our wages at 1965 levels while eviscerating the protections we had against bad actors who ended up gambling with, and outright stealing, what little wealth we _had_ been able to cobble together, and rewriting the tax code to get their money treated entirely differently from the average working person so that they end up paying a _substantially_ smaller percentage of their income to support their country than the schlub scrubbing their toilets for minimum wage does. And Paul Ryan want to inflict even _more_ draconian legislation on the majority of us, while simultaneously handing over what scraps we have remaining, after their drunken frat party of the 2000s, to the already filthy rich! I can’t _wait_ for all his subterfuge to start oozing out to the surface. When people start realizing what a lying piece of filth he is, and how much more he wants to steal from us, they will go _flying_ to the polls to vote for President Obama. [GOP Darling Paul Ryan’s Budget Would Steal Railroad Workers’ Retirement Funds And Turn Them Over To The Wealthy](http://www.winningwordsproject.com/gop_darling_paul_ryan_s_budget_would_steal_railroad_workers_retirement_funds) ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/311 "2012-08-13T06:45:30Z")
Problem is Obama won’t reverse any of the stuff you’re unhappy about. He’s not a reformer in practice only in campaigning. I agree that Romney and Ayn-Randian gimp are much worse. But if we want real change that makes our economy more rewarding to hard work and talent and less to exploitation of advantages of deception, birth, corruption and monopoly he’s not gonna get us there. If we had enough people demanding reforms we could get there. Unfortunately the US population is basically neutered by the media and excess work hours for anyone with the principles and community capital to move people to action. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/312 "2012-08-13T06:49:01Z")
Shayna, does the progressive movement want to empower “the people”, or “the person”? I think that’s why “the people” never buy what you’re selling. The community is everything, the individual relatively unimportant, unless that individual’s plight is a group problem representing a progressive concern, like discrimination. But if you’re in the wrong group, you’re just a whiner standing in the way of social justice. BTW, I wonder how the progressive movement would be served by the US defaulting on the debt? Where will your vaunted social programs be then? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/313 "2012-08-13T08:55:45Z")
The Gawkersphere blogs focus is all on Ryan’s strong pro-life, no-exceptions-even-for-rape-or-incest abortion stance. The narrative there is that this extends the perception of the Romney ticket as strongly anti-women. Anyone think there’ll be a drop in polls from womenvoters (who are strongly pro-Obama already, AFAIK?) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/314 "2012-08-13T09:01:06Z")
Considering that many women are pro-life, almost to the same extent as men, it shouldn’t affect the women’s vote at all. Unless women are more likely to be single issue voters. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/315 "2012-08-13T09:44:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Considering that many women are pro-life, almost to the same extent as men, it shouldn’t affect the women’s vote at all. Unless women are more likely to be single issue voters. Only 20-25% of people men or women believe that it should be illegal in all circumstances. If he’s in that boat he’s in the extreme camp on the issue. Also more of the women who are protective of their control of their own bodies are going to be more motivated than a man or woman who wants to take it away. (I would think) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/316 "2012-08-13T09:50:08Z")
Ryan does have a 100% pro-life voting record, but it’s not clear to me that he’s a no exceptions guy. I did some checking, but from what I understand, that accusation mainly comes from extrapolating his views from his voting record. Not entirely unfair, but not always completely accurate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/317 "2012-08-13T10:33:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ryan does have a 100% pro-life voting record, but it’s not clear to me that he’s a no exceptions guy. I did some checking, but from what I understand, that accusation mainly comes from extrapolating his views from his voting record. Not entirely unfair, but not always completely accurate. [In his own words](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html): “I’m as pro-life as a person gets,” he told The Weekly Standard’s John McCormack in 2010. “You’re not going to have a truce.” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/318 "2012-08-13T10:54:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > from what I understand, that accusation mainly comes from extrapolating his views from his voting record. Not entirely unfair, but not always completely accurate. Cracks me up. The exceptions, I presume, come when the person has an “R” after his name, and the “completely accurate” part applies when the person has a “D”–is that the secret? Man, it’s going to be fun running against these clowns. Biden will just have to raise an eyebrow during the debate and say, “I’m a devout Catholic who is nonethelessin favor of women having choices–tell me, Mr. Ryan, what you’d want to done with a 13-year-old virgin who’d been raped and is carrying the rapist’s brain-damaged twins? The American people need to know your views.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/319 "2012-08-13T11:32:48Z")
If Biden asks that question he’d better be sure that Ryan doesn’t favor a rape exception, or else that’ll be the gaffe of the year. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/320 "2012-08-13T11:52:34Z")
What does “as pro-life as a person gets” mean to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=17)