# Veep announcement \[Romney picks Paul Ryan\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157 "2012-08-11T03:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/101 "2012-08-11T16:08:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Does this move get Ryan out of Congress for the next term, or is he going to pull a Lieberman and run for both offices at once? I saw on Kos that it is too late for Ryan to be removed from the Wisconsin ballot, so yes, he will be running for both offices. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/102 "2012-08-11T16:11:18Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > While I agree this doesn’t look like the best choice I have to say there is no way this is as bad a pick as Palin. As much as I disagree with him, Paul Ryan is undoubtedly a well spoken, bright guy. Nope, he is just a conspiracy theorist, typical anti science republican and anti environmentalist representative. [http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/11/677051/meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/](http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/11/677051/meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/) > [@](#): > > Paul Ryan Promoted Unfounded Conspiracy Theories About Climate Scientists. In a December 2009 op-ed during international climate talks, Ryan made reference to the hacked University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit emails. He accused climatologists of a “perversion of the scientific method, where data were manipulated to support a predetermined conclusion,” in order to “intentionally mislead the public on the issue of climate change.” Because of spurious claims of conspiracy like these, several governmental and academic inquiries were launched, all of which found the accusations to be without merit. [Paul Ryan, 2/11/09] > > Paul Ryan Argued Snow Invalidates Global Warming Policy. In the same December 2009 op-ed, Ryan argued, “Unilateral economic restraint in the name of fighting global warming has been a tough sell in our communities, where much of the state is buried under snow.” [Paul Ryan, 2/11/09] > > Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate EPA Limits On Greenhouse Pollution. Ryan voted in favor of H.R. 910, introduced in 2011 by Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) to block the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas pollution. [Roll Call 249, 4/7/11] > > Paul Ryan Voted To Block The USDA From Preparing For Climate Change. In 2011, Ryan voted in favor of the Scalise (R-LA) Amendment to the FY12 Agriculture Appropriations bill, to bar the U.S. Department of Agriculture from implementing its Climate Protection Plan. [Roll Call 448, 6/16/11] > > Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate White House Climate Advisers. Ryan voted in favor of Scalise (R-LA) Amendment 204 to the 2011 Continuing Resolution, to eliminate the assistant to the president for energy and climate change, the special envoy for climate change (Todd Stern), and the special adviser for green jobs, enterprise and innovation. [Roll Call 87, 2/17/11] > > Paul Ryan Voted To Eliminate ARPA-E. Ryan voted in favor of Biggert (R-IL) Amendment 192 to the 2011 Continuing Resolution, to eliminate the Department of Energy’s Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA-E). [Roll Call 55, 2/17/11] ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/103 "2012-08-11T16:12:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hasn’t used it much at all, at least relative to the President’s burn rate. > > But I don’t think he’s planning to sit on it forever. Now that he’s got a controversial VP pick, he has to rush to define Ryan positively. I don’t think he can begin spending the bulk of his campaign money until after the convention, when he officially become the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/104 "2012-08-11T16:29:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, he is just a conspiracy theorist, typical anti science republican and anti environmentalist representative. > > [http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/11/677051/meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/](http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/08/11/677051/meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte/) Needs more brimstone, Reverend. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/105 "2012-08-11T16:30:37Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > A Pawlenty, Portman, Rubio, or Jindal pick would have been boring, more of the same, and lead to a 3 point Romney loss. It’s not particularly relevant at this point, but you’d have been right about the first three, but [wrong about Jindal](http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/07/13163644-the-things-kids-learn-in-louisiana?lite). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/106 "2012-08-11T16:34:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Needs more brimstone, Reverend. As I pointed on the other thread, one should tell the blind leader that is requesting to lead all Americans to take a hike. There was a thread before that wondered if this issue was going to be a presidential one, well we have to thank Romney for this, anti-science ideas have roosted for too long among republicans and it is time now to call them out because they are no longer pandering but actively doing efforts to stop progress on this front. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/107 "2012-08-11T16:53:24Z")
Vulture/Voucher 2012! For those who say Ryan has good favorables, that’s likely because NOBODY REALLY KNOWS HIM. The only people who REALLY know what’s in the Ryan budget plan are political fanatics like some of us and the people over at Daily Kos. Once the Obama campaign and the pro-Obama superpacs get going, everyone will know about the details (such as they are) of the Ryan budget. Also, remember that NY-23, a district that was red as blood for decades, went blue in the special election, mostly because of Ryan’s budget plan. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/108 "2012-08-11T16:54:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Needs more brimstone, Reverend. And one more thing regarding the sorry point that this is based on religion, as Tim Minchin said of woo proponents that claim that scientists use religion: ““Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit. Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed Faith is the refusal\* of observation so that Belief can be preserved.” - Storm The reality is that it does not matter how republican a scientist can be, the anti science brigade is the base now of the current Republican leadership and it has to pander to some of the most reprehensible voters: > **[MIT Climate Scientist’s Wife Threatened In A “Frenzy of Hate”](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/01/mit-climate-scientists-wife-threatened-frenzy-hate/)** > > Kerry Emanuel's inbox was flooded with menacing emails after Climate Desk's video on Republican climate hawks. > [@](#): > > MIT Climate Scientist’s Wife Threatened In A “Frenzy of Hate” > Kerry Emanuel’s inbox was flooded with menacing emails after Climate Desk’s video on Republican climate hawks. > [@](#): > > Threats are nothing new in the world of climate science. But Emanuel was surprised by the viciousness of the emails. “I think most of my colleagues and I have received a fair bit of email here and there that you might classify as hate mail, but nothing like what I’ve got in the last few days.” > > “This was a little more orchestrated this time,” he said. > > The video—“New Hampshire’s GOP Climate Hawks”—documented a climate change conference run by a group of Republican voters upset by their party’s anti-science rhetoric. Kerry Emanuel was a keynote speaker along with former Republican congressman Bob Inglis from South Carolina (who, incidentally, has not received any threats since the video). > > In one clip, Kerry Emanuel says, “It makes me feel to some extent disgusted with politics and to some extent ashamed to be an American.” > > The comments were seized upon, Emanuel suspects, by “bloggers bent on distorting that message and amplifying it.” One website, Climate Depot, posted Emanuel’s email address. > > Emanuel notes that in the full video he went on to explain that the Republican candidates “have either been misled in which case it’s not great to be part of the political system where candidates for the president of the United States could be so misled on such an important issue, or they were dishonest, in which case equally bad in my view: How could we live in a country where candidates are being dishonest about an issue of such importance?” - [Censored from the original as it said the “d” word.](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/denier--2) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/109 "2012-08-11T16:58:24Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Don’t forget that a lot of current recipients have children. So, just because they aren’t personally affected (except for the case that can be made that once they go to the voucher system, what’s to stop them from going further the next year), many wouldn’t want their children to be screwed over. Absolutely, and that’s why Romney and Ryan must articulate the case as to why the voucher system is better. It’s definitely going to be an uphill climb. Newt Gingrich and the GOP in 1995, for example, got eviscerated by Clinton on functionally the same issue. However, Romney and Ryan aren’t as bombastic as Gingrich, and Obama doesn’t have that “aw shucks” charm that Clinton had. Clinton also had a proposal to balance the budget in 10 years and had shown that he could actually reduce deficits (even if through tax increases). I think that swing voters are tiring of the Obama “We did the best we could with what we were handed” line. There comes a point in time where it doesn’t matter what you were given, but what you are going to do going moving forward. Obama’s plan seems to stop at tax increases for people making over $250k/yr. So there is definitely a groove out there that Romney and Ryan could hit. They will come under withering attack from the left with negative ads the likes of which have never been seen before. Can they remain cool and articulate the vision they have? It remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/110 "2012-08-11T16:59:55Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > They will come under withering attack from the left with negative ads the likes of which have never been seen before. By those who’ve never seen a presidential election before and ignore the Romney campaign, anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/111 "2012-08-11T17:03:19Z")
I am still trying to figure out the timing of this announcement. At the crack of dawn on a Saturday, instead of top of the news on a Monday? Almost as if they want to slide this in secretly or something. Very odd. Also, now you have two bland white guys running - granted, Biden is hardly the hip and happening dude, but he contrasts nicely to the Obama persona. Romney and Ryan look like two bankers nobody would want to see across the table from them when asking for help with your mortgage. I suppose this might have made the conservatives happy, but I just don’t see undecided/independent voters getting all excited now. I am sure the vetting process will now begin in the press, and it will be interesting to see what they find that perhaps the Romney camp overlooked when choosing Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/112 "2012-08-11T17:04:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By those who’ve never seen a presidential election before and ignore the Romney campaign, anyway. 😉 I mean ads from semi mainstream sources. Sure you can get some wacko group to call Obama a Kenyan or say that Republicans are Klan members, but I mean real ads from the campaigns or the national party that show 80 year old women turning tricks to pay for their hospital bills or some other outrageous thing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/113 "2012-08-11T17:06:28Z")
I assure you they are not hoping people won’t notice. I’m still guessing they wanted to get the pick discussed on all the Meet-the-Press type shows and let the talk radio sphere line up behind Ryan. Considering how little the VP generally matters and the fact that these guys are going to be all over the country and the news for almost three months, it really doesn’t matter that they announced it on a Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/114 "2012-08-11T17:10:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I assure you they are not hoping people won’t notice. I’m still guessing they wanted to get the pick discussed on all the Meet-the-Press type shows and let the talk radio sphere line up behind Ryan. Considering how little the VP generally matters and the fact that these guys are going to be all over the country and the news for almost three months, it really doesn’t matter that they announced it on a Saturday. I think that this is correct. See how the pundits toss it around over the weekend and get Hannity, Rush, et al on the same page with the same talking points on Monday. If you announce it on Monday morning, you run the risk of someone on your side saying something out of line. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/115 "2012-08-11T17:16:55Z")
Let me post one good thing about Ryan –[the only good thing I found](http://news.yahoo.com/5-things-mitt-doesnt-want-know-paul-ryan-162758609.html): > [@](#): > > …he’s notably further to the left on the issue of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender rights than the base of the party. He broke with a lot of his party to support the Employee Non-Discrimination Act in 2007. He explained his reasoning for the vote in this way: “They [his gay friends] didn’t roll out of bed one morning and choose to be gay. That’s who they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/116 "2012-08-11T17:19:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Needs more brimstone, Reverend. Magellan, imagine if someone who didn’t believe in nuclear warheads wanted to run for president. Imagine that he would support implementing policy that would start full-on war with Pakistan, because “They would have no way to defend themselves from our traditional warfare”. Imagine if he based this on his failure to understand basic physics. Okay. Imagining that? Would you consider us out of line for voicing our stern opposition to such a ludicrously out-of-touch-with-reality candidate? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/117 "2012-08-11T17:46:20Z")
Having Ryan on the ticket will turn out more of the GOP and Tea Party base, but most of them were already going to vote for Romney anyway; now Mittens will just get more of them than he would have otherwise pulled in. The thing is, he can’t win using only his base, and as soon as the Obama team starts to define Ryan and his plan…well, mark my words, there is going to be a sizable shift to the left for the remaining few independents out there. I have to believe on at least some level that the Obama campaign is downright _giddy_ now that they have Ryan on Romney’s ticket. I mean, it is a fact that the kinds of changes and cuts that Ryan - and now Romney - want to make to Medicare (and by extension every other social safety net) are incredibly unpopular; independents are going to hear that stuff and go “You want to do THAT? Fuck you guys, I’m going for Obama.” Obviously the Romney guys were nervous; make no mistake, having Ryan on the ticket is a result of Romney having made a _scared_ decision. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/118 "2012-08-11T17:53:14Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Magellan, imagine if someone who didn’t believe in nuclear warheads wanted to run for president. Imagine that he would support implementing policy that would start full-on war with Pakistan, because “They would have no way to defend themselves from our traditional warfare”. Imagine if he based this on his failure to understand basic physics. Okay. Imagining that? Would you consider us out of line for voicing our stern opposition to such a ludicrously out-of-touch-with-reality candidate? Much as I think Ryan is an idiot or a liar or both, I am completely mystified by your response. Are you talking about a president who would start a conventional war with Pakistan, or a nuclear war with Pakistan, “because they would have no way to defend themselves…” They certainly do have ways to defend themselves against conventional attack, mostly with weapons we provided them. No one country has any real means of defending itself against a nuclear missile attack. Are you saying that starting a nuclear war against Pakistan is a better choice than starting a conventional war? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/119 "2012-08-11T18:02:38Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Much as I think Ryan is an idiot or a liar or both, I am completely mystified by your response. Are you talking about a president who would start a conventional war with Pakistan, or a nuclear war with Pakistan, “because they would have no way to defend themselves…” They certainly do have ways to defend themselves against conventional attack, mostly with weapons we provided them. No one country has any real means of defending itself against a nuclear missile attack. > > Are you saying that starting a nuclear war against Pakistan is a better choice than starting a conventional war? He’s saying that because the example president doesn’t believe in nukes, he’ll go about his business in a manner as if they don’t exist. If we wants to invade Pakistan, he’ll mass an overwhelming amount conventional troops on their border, not understanding that they can just launch nuclear shells to kill everyone. So, because of his daft misunderstanding, he’ll do very, very stupid things. Like a how a climate change denier might cancel wind power subsides while retaining them for fossil fuels. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157/120 "2012-08-11T18:11:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > He’s saying that because the example president doesn’t believe in nukes, he’ll go about his business in a manner as if they don’t exist. > > If we wants to invade Pakistan, he’ll mass an overwhelming amount conventional troops on their border, not understanding that they can just launch nuclear shells to kill everyone. > > So, because of his daft misunderstanding, he’ll do very, very stupid things. Like a how a climate change denier might cancel wind power subsides while retaining them for fossil fuels. Ok, I understand that, so I will just say that this is a ridiculous comparison. I know of literally no one on earth who disbelieves that nuclear weapons exist or that they work. Ryan is simply not nearly THAT stupid. My guess is he isn’t stupid at all, more likely he is in the pocket of the energy industry, and perhaps even doesn’t believe the situation is as dire as probably is. Now, if you can come up with a scenario where Ryan is being paid or otherwise personally benefiting from a claim that nukes aren’t real, you might have something. Now, this leads us to the question of whether we want a corrupt and/or stupid Vice President. Unfortunately, we have lots of precedents of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veep-announcement-romney-picks-paul-ryan/631157.md?page=7)