# Veganism at fault for mental deficiency. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838 "2003-01-31T08:19:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/81 "2003-02-01T06:33:34Z")
lezlers has pretty much covered everything I wanted to say, and far more eloquently than I could have, I am sure. I just wanted to say, the predictabilty of these vegan/vegetarian threads never changes. The “but plants have feelings too!” mantra is trotted out, **EACH AND EVERY TIME.** I have a small rant I want to share here, and this is it: \*\*THE “PLANTS HAVE FEELINGS TOO” LINE IS OVERDONE. IT’S REALLY BEEN DONE. A LOT. PUT A FORK IN IT. IT IS DONE. LET ME REPEAT THIS, IN CASE YOU MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME: YOU ARE NOT AMAZING US WITH YOUR ORIGINALITY WHEN YOU START WITH THE “PLANTS HAVE FEELINGS TOO” THING. WE’VE HEARD IT. OVER AND OVER AND _OVER_ AGAIN. REALLY. WE’VE HEARD IT. HONESTLY. PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND FOR NEXT TIME. WE HAVE HEARD IT. IT IS _NOT_ ORIGINAL. YOU ARE NOT BEING ORIGINAL. JUST SO YOU KNOW. \*\* I’m sorry for the “shouting”, but I have heard this line SO many times. Each time the person bringing this up thinks they are _so_ clever and _so_ original and they assume we’ve never heard it before. The tedious repetition of this tiresome and worn-out line has driven me to the above ranting. Thank you very much for your time. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/82 "2003-02-01T18:49:44Z")
I see, **yosemitebabe** , you don’t want to hear it because you’re just a cold-hearted vegan/vegetarian! Ah-ha! THE SECRET IS OUT NOW FOLKS. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/83 "2003-02-02T00:03:47Z")
Cheeseless pizza can be very, very good. Olive oil and garlic and pesto and fresh veggies… roasted peppers and potato is particularly yummy. Everyone cheer for cheeseless pizza! ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/84 "2003-02-02T00:31:38Z")
At best, ‘cheeseless pizza’ might be able to pass for focaccia. But calling it ‘pizza’ in the first place is damn near blasphemous. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/85 "2003-02-02T00:44:55Z")
While maybe somewhat tangential to the discussion, I thought I would share a story from back in my university days: I was eating a rare steak in the cafeteria, when this girl sits down across the table from me with a salad. About five minutes pass, and then she goes into this rant about how it’s wrong to eat meat, starting first with the ethical issues and then proceeding to the health and nutrition side of things. She actually made a pretty good case for vegetarianism being the healthier choice - but she slipped up when she said that because of being a vegetarian she keeps all of those hormones and harmful chemicals out of her body. My reply: “You know - I think you may be right. From now on, I’m only going to eat vegetarians.” She promptly stood up and left, leaving me to eat my steak in peace. Pass the gravy… ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/86 "2003-02-02T00:47:16Z")
I have a question. Collard greens are usually cooked with ham or turkey in the pot. Would most vegetarians/vegans eat collard greens, or refuse to because they were cooked with meat? [Note: I am aware that people take up vegetarianism/veganism for many different reasons. I am interested in all of their responses.] ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/87 "2003-02-02T01:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Heloise \* > \*\*Great, my first pit thread in a while, and I use the mark of satan. Ugh. \*\* _And_ you unknowingly unleash Episode XXVCCMMIII in a series of ‡ episodes of Straight Dope Veganism Threads, all doomed to end badly. Way to go! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/88 "2003-02-02T01:13:25Z")
Awww, crap. This thread IS bad luck. That weird thing is supposed to be the infinity sign, copied straight from my character map in Windows XP. Apparently, vB doesn’t like it that much. ---
**Author:** ![BadBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@BadBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadBaby)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/89 "2003-02-02T01:20:12Z")
Franticmad-- auto cannibalism?! Think of the children! Mmmm, chillldrennnn… ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/90 "2003-02-02T01:50:45Z")
Plants don’t have nervous systems. They don’t have brains. Therefore, they don’t have feelings. Period. End of the discussion. Now go eat your hamburger. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/91 "2003-02-02T02:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*I’m sorry for the “shouting”, but I have heard this line SO many times. Each time the person bringing this up thinks they are _so_ clever and _so_ original and they assume we’ve never heard it before. The tedious repetition of this tiresome and worn-out line has driven me to the above ranting. Thank you very much for your time. \*\* I don’t repeat the line for you, or to be clever or trendy or to annoy my parents. I do it for myself and what business is it of yours what I say? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/92 "2003-02-02T02:10:23Z")
Thank you **Yosemitebabe**. Ahh, Yosemite, spent many weekends and vacations there when I was little. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/93 "2003-02-02T02:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JDeMobray \* > \*\*I don’t repeat the line for you, or to be clever or trendy or to annoy my parents. I do it for myself and what business is it of yours what I say? 😉 \*\* Oh, you’re _so_ witty. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/94 "2003-02-02T02:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*Plants don’t have nervous systems. They don’t have brains. Therefore, they don’t have feelings. Period. End of the discussion. > > Now go eat your hamburger. \*\* You heartless fuck. How can you look [them](http://www.guidinglightvideo.com/veggang.jpg) in their eyes, and say that they are unfeeling and unthinking? I am stunned that such speciest views are still around. This is the 21st century, for Jonah’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/95 "2003-02-02T02:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > At best, ‘cheeseless pizza’ might be able to pass for focaccia. But calling it ‘pizza’ in the first place is damn near blasphemous. Umm, no, it’s not. Pizza does not by its nature require cheese. Sorry. Very good pizza can be made without cheese, and without being mistake-able for focaccia. Tomato, pesto, cream, and olive oil sauces can all be combined with different topping to make good pizza without cheese. Yes, I know that cream is dairy. I didn’t say, “Hooray for non-dairy pizza!” Sorry for hijacking this into a pizza argument. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/96 "2003-02-02T03:22:24Z")
Argh. I’m a vegetarian. Have been for four years, during which I have not eaten any meat or eggs. My reasons were partly ethical, but mostly because meat was making me sick. I have to be extremely careful about how much fat I have, because my stomach doesn’t produce enough of the various enzymes that break down fats properly (or so theorized my doctor). I’m sick of those people who try and convert me to veganism. I don’t think that it’s unhealthy, and I was vegan for a short while. Wasn’t that big of a switch for me, actually, because I do need to read ingredient labels for just about everything anyway. But unless you’re talking to some hard-core vegan who’s at the moment trying to convert you, shut the hell up about what I’m eating. If I don’t preach to you, then don’t preach to me. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/97 "2003-02-02T03:33:23Z")
I, for one, attend to address the OP. Any woman who is nourishing a child from her own body (this means pregnancy as well as breastfeeding) needs to be hyper-aware of what is and is not good for her baby. This means: no tobacco, no alcohol, plenty of vitamins (you should take supplements no matter what your diet consists of), no excess of coffee, tea or empty calories. There are clueless parents from all dietary walks of life. As for vegans and vegetarians, what you choose to eat is none of my business. I used to have a job where two of the office workers were vegetarian (don’t think they were vegan), and one guy was perfectly nice. He used to share his raisin bread with me, cuz he knew he liked it. Kept his veggie burgers in the freezer in the kitchen, fried 'em up at lunchtime, and that was that. The other guy, though, had two “in your face” bumper stickers, one which said “Meat is Dead”, and the other said “Friends Don’t Let Friends Eat Meat”. Every time someone in the office was enjoying a nice sandwich from Heavenly Ham, he’d make a point of walking over and saying “You do realize something had to die for you to have lunch, don’t you”. What really sucked is that I, being a meat-based human, could not in all good conscience tell him to bite me! ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/98 "2003-02-02T04:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by norinew \* > \*\*Every time someone in the office was enjoying a nice sandwich from Heavenly Ham, he’d make a point of walking over and saying “You do realize something had to die for you to have lunch, don’t you”. \*\* You response: “You are so right. Let me have you over for dinner tonight. I’m serving fava beans, and a nice chianti.” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/99 "2003-02-02T04:03:40Z")
As a strict vegetarian, I’m giving any omnivore who is harrassed by an obnoxious self-righteous vegetarian my blessing if you feel like smacking them upside the head. What you eat is your business, and no one else’s. Conversely, what I eat is my business. So if you want to wave your burger in my face, bug me about my shoes (which are NOT real leather, thankyouverymuch), or tell me about the plant’s feelings, don’t be too surprised if I am tempted to smack you upside the head, too. It’s called “being polite.” Let’s try it, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838/100 "2003-02-02T04:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > \*\*One of the first things I ask people when they’re going meatless is whether or not they’re getting dairy. \*\* Yeah. I got my dairy and I’m writing in it every day, despite my dyslexia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veganism-at-fault-for-mental-deficiency/151838.md?page=6)