# Vegans and Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825 "2004-05-30T19:17:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lynwood\_Slim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Lynwood\_Slim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynwood_Slim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/1 "2004-05-30T19:17:54Z")
I was told that Vegans don’t eat any food derived from anything with a face. I asked, why not eggs, and I was told because eggs come from chickens. I would assume therefore that Vegans would be anti-abortion, since they don’t eat chicken eggs, they would not want to kill a fetus, either, no matter how small. Is this so? Any Vegans out there know if there is an accepted Vegan line regarding the killing of a human embryo/fetus? This is a factual question, not a debate. I just want to know the Vegan stand and what the reasoning is, not argue about it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/2 "2004-05-30T19:28:48Z")
There is no “vegan stand” on abortion. Individual vegans have individual opinions. Having said that, the vegan objection to eating eggs is not they are eating embryos (I believe most commercial eggs are unfertalized anyway) but that they are harvested from chickens without their will. They see it as _stealing_ from the hens, not as murder. They think that animals should not be exploited for things like milk or wool either. ---
**Author:** ![Lynwood\_Slim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Lynwood\_Slim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynwood_Slim)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/3 "2004-05-31T04:04:53Z")
“stealing from hens” This opens up a whole new line of questioning – animals have property? Is this a serious Vegan position? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/4 "2004-05-31T04:09:02Z")
As far as I know, the people from the planet Vega do not have an official stance on abortion. (You don’t need to capitalize the word, you know . . . ) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/5 "2004-05-31T04:13:37Z")
IANAV. I think that they avoid eggs because they feel that the “factory farming” of animals is morally wrong. They feel that chickens who are forced to live a life as egg making factories are living a life of misery and pain. If they had a plot of land with free roaming chickens as pets, they would most likely not have a problem with eating the naturally occurring unfertilized eggs that happened to be laid. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/6 "2004-05-31T05:02:43Z")
Having had dinner with a vegan this very day, I can confirm that **hajario** is correct insofar as that particular vegan is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/7 "2004-05-31T06:05:28Z")
[Grassroots Veganism with Jo Stepaniak](http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qaabortion.htm) > [@](#): > > Veganism and Abortion > What is the official vegan stance on abortion? > > No moral dilemma exists that is quite like the issue of abortion. A fetus grows within and is dependent on the pregnant woman carrying it, so the situation is distinctly different from that of animals or humans already born and conspicuously alive. Simple observation readily confirms the obvious with regard to the suffering of people and animals. The question of when life begins, however, is an enigmatic matter that has sparked passionate political, legal, and ecclesiastical debate. > > Vegans are all across the board in their view of abortion. Although many vegans feel that abortion is a relevant vegan issue, there is no consensus of opinion. Even vegans who have parallel points of view on most matters often come to very different conclusions on this one. This is because determining when life begins is a complex and subjective affair, one which frequently involves spiritual or religious considerations as well. Consequently, this issue is just as contentious and no easier to resolve within the bounds of veganism than it is in the general public. > > Veganism is not a theology. Hence vegans come from a diverse range of backgrounds and outlooks. Because vegans do not share a uniform position on abortion, there is no “official stance.” This matter is best resolved by individual practitioners in the context of their personal perspectives or spiritual beliefs. [Another Vegan has a different view - Animal Advocacy and Abortion](http://articles.animalconcerns.org/ar-voices/archive/ar_abortion.html) > [@](#): > > Another pro-life pro-animal advocate is H.Jay Dinshah, president of the American Vegan Society. In “Two Views of Abortion,” published in “Ahimsa” (October/December 1982), Dinshah writes: “[A]s a dedicated humanitarian, I will be obliged to continue to oppose the monstrous evil of abortion per se, not pussyfoot around and become an accomplice by fooling myself and others that what really matters is the ten minutes or two hours of pain inflicted [on a sentient fetus] and not the taking of human life itself.” [6] For Dinshah, life is the moral yardstick by which abortion is to be judged; appeals to pain are irrelevent. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/8 "2004-05-31T08:12:08Z")
Holy shit! You can be pro-life AND vegan?!? I swear I never even thought that was possible! (though I never thought of the connection till this thread) Well there’s my “new thing learned today”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/9 "2004-05-31T15:06:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Holy shit! You can be pro-life AND vegan?!? I swear I never even thought that was possible! (though I never thought of the connection till this thread) Well there’s my “new thing learned today”. 🙂 I think you mean - “Holy shit! You can be pro-choice AND vegan?” The same way any system of moral philosophy can be twisted around like a paper clip when it becomes personally or poitically inconvenient. It’s easy to profess profound respect for all living things as long as that perspective only requires recipe adjustments. When that little baby in your belly is going to screw up grad school for you, it turns out that some lives are more scared than others. [Vegan Values](http://www.veganvalues.org/) > [@](#): > > Veganism acknowledges the intrinsic legitimacy of all life. It rejects any hierarchy of acceptable suffering among sentient creatures. It is no more acceptable to torment or kill creatures with “primitive nervous systems” than those with “highly developed nervous systems.” The value of life to its possessor is the same, whether it be the life of a clam, a crayfish, a carp, a cow, a chicken, or a child ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/10 "2004-05-31T15:30:46Z")
I know a vegan who doesn’t give a crap about animals being killed for food, she just chooses not to eat meat. She has battled eating disorders before, and I think her main reason for giving up meat products was fear of them making her fat. She also had an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/11 "2004-05-31T15:47:30Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > I know a vegan who doesn’t give a crap about animals being killed for food, she just chooses not to eat meat. She has battled eating disorders before, and I think her main reason for giving up meat products was fear of them making her fat. She also had an abortion. I think being a true “Vegan” embodies a philosophical orientation toward living creatures as well as diet. Your friend would probably be more accurately described as a strict vegetarian, not a “Vegan”, even if she calls herself that. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/12 "2004-05-31T15:52:28Z")
Not according to the definitions I’ve seen. Maybe some “vegan” groups have tried to change the definition but according to the American Heritage dictionary and [this](http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/animal_veggie.htm) web site, there isn’t a philisophical ground you must stand on to be labeled a vegan. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/13 "2004-05-31T16:12:50Z")
However, IME it’s pretty unusual to be vegan for non-moral reasons. If only because most people who are worried about health, taste, etc, don’t have any reason not to eat rennet, occasional eggs, etc, and hence describe themselves as ‘nearly vegan’ or something. But my experience could be atypical. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/14 "2004-05-31T16:21:23Z")
It would also be unusual for an atheist to believe in the Easter bunny but that doesn’t mean you can’t be one if you do. The only prerequisite for being labeled an atheist is not believing any gods exist. Given the definitions I provided, a vegan doesn’t have to have any particular moral or philisophical viewpoint. Only what enters their mouth matters. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/15 "2004-05-31T16:33:43Z")
Some vegans are that way because they feel this is the most healthy diet. As such, health rather than morality is key. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/16 "2004-05-31T17:31:07Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > It would also be unusual for an atheist to believe in the Easter bunny but that doesn’t mean you can’t be one if you do. The only prerequisite for being labeled an atheist is not believing any gods exist. Given the definitions I provided, a vegan doesn’t have to have any particular moral or philisophical viewpoint. Only what enters their mouth matters. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that there weren’t any non-moral vegans, or that there shouldn’t be, just that it was rare IME. And that that correlation might explain the confusion. (Hijack: athiesm is an interesting example, since I’ve always agreed with the definiton you gave, but there was another thread where someone initially refused to believe an athiest could believe in the supernatural or afterlife. And indeed many athiests would consider such a person strange, as they’re actually not just atheists, but rationalists or humanists, or something I don’t have a word for.) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/17 "2004-05-31T17:45:04Z")
The suprise and claims of hypocrisy are suprising to me. I don’t see how one has anything to do with the other. I would expect vegans to tend toward being pro-choice only because both vegans and pro-choicers tend to be Liberal. Tendencies don’t define the whole group though. **astro** ’s cite shows the philosophical beliefs of a certain group of vegans but not all vegans are required to sign that particular petition. As has been shown, vegas choose their diet for a variety of reasons. Some of which would be inconsistent with being pro-choice but most are nuetral in the abortion debate. Haj ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/18 "2004-05-31T19:51:47Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think you mean - “Holy shit! You can be pro-choice AND vegan?” > > The same way any system of moral philosophy can be twisted around like a paper clip when it becomes personally or poitically inconvenient. It’s easy to profess profound respect for all living things as long as that perspective only requires recipe adjustments. When that little baby in your belly is going to screw up grad school for you, it turns out that some lives are more scared than others. > > [Vegan Values](http://www.veganvalues.org/) That’s a nice little political jab in GQ. And some people’s lives are more scared than others, a girl I work with screams if you tap her on the shoulder. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/19 "2004-05-31T21:01:49Z")
So this thread isn’t about if vegans can eat abortions? Thank goodness. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825/20 "2004-06-01T05:29:10Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > IANAV. > > I think that they avoid eggs because they feel that the “factory farming” of animals is morally wrong. They feel that chickens who are forced to live a life as egg making factories are living a life of misery and pain. If they had a plot of land with free roaming chickens as pets, they would most likely not have a problem with eating the naturally occurring unfertilized eggs that happened to be laid. > > Haj So, \*\* Revtim\*\*, looks like vegans can eat abortions, as long as they weren’t aborted for the sole purpose of eating. So far looks like (some) vegans can eat roadkill, eggs from pet chickens, and abortions. What sick, demented people. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegans-and-abortion/247825.md?page=2)