# Vegetarians Are Intolerant Jerks \[Moved from BBQ Pit\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967 "2009-08-27T22:44:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/281 "2009-08-31T21:25:45Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > You have to farm crops to feed to livestock. Crops that you could have fed to humans. So, raising animals for slaughter results in more animal deaths than not raising animals for slaughter. You have to raise more crops to feed people than to feed animals,. so it evens out. Plus you’re killing more animals with all the energy it takes to farm, harvest and transport it all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/282 "2009-08-31T21:27:23Z")
> [@geezermom67](#): > > If you’re trying to say that dogfighting isn’t necessary because we don’t need it to survive, I would of course agree. However, the vast majority of us don’t need to eat meat to survive either. It’s more efficient to eat meat, and most people don’t have a choice about it. Vegetarianism is a privileged, western affect. ---
**Author:** ![geezermom67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@geezermom67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geezermom67)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/283 "2009-08-31T21:29:56Z")
That I would need a cite for…I think that in terms of calories, it is much more efficient to eat grain directly than to process it through a cow or other animal. Do we really get more calories out of beef or other animals than we would if we just ate the grain or used the farmland currently growing animal feed to grow food for humans? ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/284 "2009-08-31T21:32:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s more efficient to eat meat, and most people don’t have a choice about it. Vegetarianism is a privileged, western affect. One we share with at least one major world religion that has it’s basis in the 3rd world. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/285 "2009-08-31T21:34:05Z")
Grain doesn’t have any protein or fat in it, no matter how much you eat. People who don’t eat animal products have to make up for that lost nutrition by getting it from a variety of other sources which do not grow geographically close to each other and have to be transported long distances. Let’s put it this way, you could not live in the woods and be a vegan. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/286 "2009-08-31T21:35:22Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > One we share with at least one major world religion that has it’s basis in the 3rd world. What religion is that? Its not universal in Hinduism, if that’s what you’re thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/287 "2009-08-31T21:35:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obviously different people have different ethical values. That’s a completely irrelevant point. What I’m saying doesn’t make sense is the inconsistency in your OWN ethical values. If YOU think a particular act is unethical, then it doesn’t matter who commits the act, and it doesn’t matter whether THEY think it’s unethical. Do you think rape is unethical? Do you think it’s not unethical unless the person committing the rape ALSO thinks it’s unethical? I don’t eat meat because I could not kill the animal myself, and I think it is hypocritical of me to ask someone to do this for me. So, my ethical standard does mean I can look at people who eat meat differently from myself. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/288 "2009-08-31T21:36:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What religion is that? Its not universal in Hinduism, if that’s what you’re thinking. Not implying that it is. But it is a choice made by many Indians, Malaysians and Thai (at a start), who I would believe are not doing it under the guise of a “privileged, western affect”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/289 "2009-08-31T21:37:29Z")
No, your ethical standard just means you think people who eat meat without killing it are hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![geezermom67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@geezermom67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geezermom67)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/290 "2009-08-31T21:38:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Grain doesn’t have any protein or fat in it, no matter how much you eat. People who don’t eat animal products have to make up for that lost nutrition by getting it from a variety of other sources which do not grow geographically close to each other and have to be transported long distances. > > Let’s put it this way, you could not live in the woods and be a vegan. Soy has plenty of protein and so do a number of grains. I do realize that there are some places where you couldn’t live and be vegan. However, on a global scale, if we phased out eating meat and instead put the land used to grow feed crops to use growing food for people to eat we could feed a lot more people. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/291 "2009-08-31T21:39:33Z")
See, there’s that sanctimonious lecturing I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/292 "2009-08-31T21:40:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Grain doesn’t have any protein or fat in it, no matter how much you eat. People who don’t eat animal products have to make up for that lost nutrition by getting it from a variety of other sources which do not grow geographically close to each other and have to be transported long distances. > > Let’s put it this way, you could not live in the woods and be a vegan. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Oat protein is nearly equivalent in quality to soy protein, which has been shown by the World Health Organization to be equal to meat, milk, and egg protein[5] The protein content of the hull-less oat kernel (groat) ranges from 12–24%, the highest among cereals. It’s true that a single source of protein in a vegetarian diet is not that balanced - but combined with legumes, or eggs, or milk protein, a vegetarian diet can provide all the protein required. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/293 "2009-08-31T21:42:10Z")
A vegetarian diet which is only available to privileged westerners. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/294 "2009-08-31T21:42:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, your ethical standard just means you think people who eat meat without killing it are hypocrites. No, my ethical standard is that people who eat meat, who would not be prepared to kill it themselves (regardless of whether they did for this or any meal) are somewhat hypocritical. Since this is not something I care to discuss with anyone, especially over dinner, it never comes up in conversation, and I give meat-eaters (like the one I live with), the benefit of the doubt with regard to their own ethical standards. I don’t judge them - just myself. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/295 "2009-08-31T21:45:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have to raise more crops to feed people than to feed animals,. so it evens out. Plus you’re killing more animals with all the energy it takes to farm, harvest and transport it all. In your opinion, is killing one cow and killing one field mouse ethically equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/296 "2009-08-31T21:48:28Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > In your opinion, is killing one cow and killing one field mouse ethically equivalent? Sure, what’s the difference? At least somebody is going to eat the cow. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/297 "2009-08-31T21:48:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A vegetarian diet which is only available to privileged westerners. You know this isn’t true, right? All those vegetarian Brahmins in India: Are they “privileged westerners” or do they have an incomplete diet? ---
**Author:** ![geezermom67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@geezermom67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geezermom67)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/298 "2009-08-31T21:49:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > See, there’s that sanctimonious lecturing I was talking about. Am I missing something here…I think the original claim that eating meat is a more efficient way of gaining nutrition is incorrect, especially as one looks at a global scale. Since a vegetarian diet is considered in this thread to be a diet of western privilege and something that couldn’t be explained to starving children, it seems worthwhile to note that many veg\*ns choose to eat that way because of global hunger issues instead of or in addition to ethical, health and environmental reasons. Some relevant quotes: > [@](#): > > “By eating 2 fewer meat dishes a week, the saving in grain would feed 225 million people every year.” -OneEarth.org > > “36% of the worlds grain supply goes to feeing livestock and poultry.” - [OneEarth.org](http://OneEarth.org) ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/299 "2009-08-31T21:50:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A vegetarian diet which is only available to privileged westerners. I don’t think that is quite true: [Quote=Wikipedia] Today, Indian vegetarians, primarily lacto vegetarians, are estimated to make up more than 70% of the world’s vegetarians. They make up 20–42% of the population in India, while less than 30% are regular meat-eaters. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967/300 "2009-08-31T21:51:32Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > No, my ethical standard is that people who eat meat, who would not be prepared to kill it themselves (regardless of whether they did for this or any meal) are somewhat hypocritical. So you think that most meat eaters are hypocrites. > [@](#): > > Since this is not something I care to discuss with anyone, especially over dinner, it never comes up in conversation, and I give meat-eaters (like the one I live with), the benefit of the doubt with regard to their own ethical standards. I don’t judge them - just myself. You’re judging the ethical value of an _act_, not a person. It doesn’t matter who commits the act. If you think the act is unethical for you, then you think it’s unethical for everybody else. It makes no sense to say that the ethical; value of an act depends on who’s doing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-are-intolerant-jerks-moved-from-bbq-pit/507967.md?page=16)