# Vegetarians, I don't get it **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 22, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786 "2001-11-22T18:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/21 "2001-11-22T20:46:10Z")
Also if animals are not worth more than vegetables in your ethical system, are people worth more than animals? If so why? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/22 "2001-11-22T20:51:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > > \*\* > > Do not argue that a turnip is a sentient being_\* > > I don’t, but a cow is not a sentient being either. > > > [@](#): > > > > and worth inherently the same as an animal. > > Why not? \*\* Because a cow can look you in the face and moo, whereas a carrot is a lousy conversationalist. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/23 "2001-11-22T20:54:17Z")
Actualy Weirddave let me give you an example. Your neighbour owns both a fruit tree and a dog (amongst other things.) One day peering over the fence you see your neighbour’s two children “playing” in the back yard. One of them is sawing a branch off the tree to see what the inside of a branch looks like. The other is sawing a leg off the dog to see what the inside of a dog looks like. What is your reaction? Do you ignore them and go back to what you were doing? Do you call the police or the animal protection society? Do you tell one of the children to stop and let the other children continue? ---
**Author:** ![VeraGemini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9bcb4/32.png) [@VeraGemini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VeraGemini)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/24 "2001-11-22T20:59:59Z")
Yep, humans are omnivorous. We’re capable of digesting food from both animal and plant sources. Some of us choose not to eat meat. I don’t want to eat another sentient creature, it feels wrong to me. Your opinion may differ, and that’s fine, we all have to make our own choices. I feed my cats meat. Why? Cats, more so even than dogs, are carnivores. (Although if I had a dog, the same would apply.) They can’t really digest plant foods without massive chemical tinkering and supplementation of the food. They don’t have the choice, I do. Simple as that. 🙂 (Previewing, I guess I should clarify my definition of “sentient” here. Animals can feel pain and some type of emotions. True, they aren’t self-aware as humans are, but they do have a level of consciousness. Plants don’t.) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/25 "2001-11-22T21:35:11Z")
I’m not a vegetarian, but I can certainly understand why people choose not to eat animals that are raised under commercial farming conditions, which are definitely _not_ natural and not pleasant for the animals involved. If I had the money, I might make an effort to eat only free-range chicken and stuff, but it’s not really possible with my current income. OTOH, I don’t think I would ever get too worked up over eating game or seafood that came from the wild – heck, that deer probably had a perfectly decent life and a swift death, and that’s all any of us can hope for. However, if other people don’t want to eat it, they have every right not to. ---
**Author:** ![Nortia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Nortia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nortia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/26 "2001-11-22T21:44:33Z")
I don’t know if this is just my weird way of thinking (probably :p) but I suppose I think of it as if I couldn’t kill it myself then I don’t eat it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/27 "2001-11-22T23:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kwyjibo \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > > **We don’t _need_ to eat it now.** > > I agree with this, but we still need the nutrients that meat provides and I am not touching Tofu. Personal preference. \*\* For what it’s worth, I haven’t eaten meat in 15 years, but neither have I eaten tofu. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/28 "2001-11-23T00:46:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > **…a cow is not a sentient being either.** Errmmm… real life terminology or science fiction? Sentient means responsive to or conscious of sensation… and while cows are certainly none too bright they certainly sense. Sapient on the other hand means what sentient means to the sci-fi crowd. 'Course… we have a special term for humans that eat spaient beings. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/29 "2001-11-23T01:08:13Z")
I don’t eat meat or fish, just chicken once or twice a year(no turkey today). I choose not to eat meat because I figure if I can live without killing something, why not do it? I feel for me it’s not necessary to kill that cow, or deer or whatever animal it is just to live. If I can do it on vegetables, beans and fruit etc., then I’ll do it. I simply don’t want to kill another living thing. If you want to, go ahead, it’s your right-I know I live in the real world. I won’t preach and you don’t have to tell me we are ‘supposed to’ because of the shape of a few of our teeth. Am I a hypocrite for saying eating a carrot is not killing something? I don’t think so, but feel free to call me one. I don’t consider a carrot a living, breathing thing. And lastly, I know I’m gonna make some of you laugh, but I put myself in the shoes of that cow and ask how would I feel if I was that cow. I’d say, “Hey! eat some veggies **Big Cheese!** ” Weird, yea, maybe, but that’s me. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/30 "2001-11-23T02:00:38Z")
10-year vegetarian here. I don’t get too hung up on the “ethics” of it – It’s mainly about health & economy for me. It’s easy to understand why some people tend to empathize with cattle, though. Probably has a lot do do with those big, soulful eyes that cows have. Hell, we even tend to describe attractive _humans_ by attributing bovine ocular characteristics to them: > [@](#): > > “She always looks as if she wanted to be kissed! Turning those big cow-eyes on every calf in town.” -_F. Scott Fitzgerald._ Fish just don’t grab you the same way. I fished for years, and didn’t blink when the time came to bludgeon the catch and “clean” it. It may not be _entirely_ coincidental that I stopped eating meat within a few years of my only hunting experience. You know, an eviscerated deer has the most unappetizing _smell_ you’ll ever get close to. That, combined with the “Oh my God, _I killed Bambi_” feeling may well have coloured the way I thought about meat after that. Who knows? > [@](#): > > **Weirddave:** Sure, animals are raised to be slaughtered, but is this any worse than being run down in the wild and eaten alive by a wolf? I don’t think so. First, I’d like to reiterate that I don’t believe that eating meat is _immoral_. That being said, the conditions that many on the anti-cruelty front object to _are_ pretty nasty, and far from necessary. Take a look at [this study](http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicles/5.17.01/cattle_diet.html) at Cornell University, which addresses some of the negative effects of fattening up cattle with a high-protein, grain-based diet. Of course, there are [specialty suppliers](http://www.americanpasturage.com/aboutus.htm) that raise beef cattle without feedlotting them, but by-and-large, that ain’t how it’s done. Nobody likes a whiny vegetarian. Especially sensible vegetarians. I imagine that we feel similarly about them as feminists feel about the “All Men Are Potential Rapists!” camp, and Christians do about the “Keep Godless Evolutionism Out of the Schoolbooks” yahoos. And then there are the [militant carnivores](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=99342), who feel compelled to attack anything a vegetarian says, apparently simply _because_ they’re vegetarian. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/31 "2001-11-23T03:43:07Z")
IANAV, though I eat that way more often than not out of honest preference. Why is it suprising that food gets tied to morality, religion, beliefs, whatever? So do music, clothing, books, speech, etc. IMO it’s futile to expect “rational” answers for something that’s value driven. Maybe food’s tricker than most because it’s a biological imperative. Everybody HAS to eat to live. But look how the simple need to _eat_ gets warped and whipsawed just by fashion, marketing, group-think, thinness, guilt, sin, whatever. Maybe the whole issue’s volatile as hell just because it IS so basic. The cruelty to animals facet? Eating meat carries an inescapable fact: a living creature died to provide the meat. Everything else spins off from that, only conclusions differ. Without making any value judgements in any direction, it’s very easy to buy a sanitary, neatly packaged roast, steak, etc. and ignore the realities of life, death and slaughter that provided it. Reactions to that differ wildly, from total rejection, pragmatism, comfortable blindness and willful greed. But IMO the only real sin against food (grace) is ingratitude. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/32 "2001-11-23T03:50:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Opus1 \* > \*\* > The fact that our humanoid ancestors 2 million years ago ate both meat and veggies may just “be,” but when you use it as argument as to what we should eat today, it is fallacious. \*\* **Dad:** 🙂 How do you like that burger that we human beings were biologically designed to eat, Son? 🙂 **Son:** 😃 It’s fallacious, Dad! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/33 "2001-11-23T04:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **TVeblen:** …IMO the only real sin against food (grace) is ingratitude. _Amen!_ ---
**Author:** ![Nukeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Nukeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nukeman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/34 "2001-11-23T10:30:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Actualy Weirddave let me give you an example. Your neighbour owns both a fruit tree and a dog (amongst other things.) One day peering over the fence you see your neighbour’s two children “playing” in the back yard. One of them is sawing a branch off the tree to see what the inside of a branch looks like. The other is sawing a leg off the dog to see what the inside of a dog looks like. What is your reaction? Do you ignore them and go back to what you were doing? Do you call the police or the animal protection society? Do you tell one of the children to stop and let the other children continue? \*\* Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, its too dark to read. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/35 "2001-11-23T10:43:30Z")
**Weirddave** - is there _nothing_ that you do for your own, personal, ethical reasons? Frankly, I’m surprised to see a MPSIMS thread about this. By it’s very _nature_, it is an attack since there is a big implication that being vegetarian is irrational and stupid. You didn’t say “tell me why you are vegetarian”. No, you said > [@](#): > > I have never understood this attitude, it always has struck me as a manifestation of the same kind of thing as middle class white guilt, you know, people with the attitude “Oh, I’m so bad because I’m white and well-off, well-off white people have done terrible things!”. Here’s a clue: it wasn’t you, buddy, let it go and > [@](#): > > Some people just get wayyyyyy too wacky, like Paul and the late Linda McCartney, who would feed their carnivorous pet cats only non-meat based foods. Now it seems that they know better than God/Nature, who designed the cat to eat meat. Madness! Then if you aren’t being indirectly insulting, you’re being argumentative - asking why a turnip doesn’t have the same intrinsic worth as a cow and accusing **Opal** of presenting straw men. If you want a debate, you’re in the wrong place. If you want to present your opinion, you’re in the wrong place. If you want to insult people, you’re in the wrong place. If you want MPSIMS, then just accept this: to some people, a cow _does_ have more intrinsic worth than a turnip. And then let it go. pan ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/36 "2001-11-23T16:26:43Z")
**Weirddave** , when a person changes their diet out of concern for animals, this can mean one of two things. Firstly, they simply prefer to eat a meal which did not involve the killing of an animal. There are actually some people who extend this to any living creature. The Jains, in India, originally believed that it was wrong to end the life cycle of a plant, as well as an animal. They refused to eat vegetables and fruits that grow underground, as these had to plucked out, and thus destroyed, in order to be eaten. They subsisted on fresh fruits and vegetables which, ideally, had already fallen from the plant. Grains were obtained when the plants or the pods were dry and dead. Most of us, however, make a distinction between animals and plants, as has already been described quite marvellously by **Arnold Winkelried**. Others make a distinction between mammals and birds or fish. Others draw the line at fish. This shouldn’t be hard to understand since everyone draws the line somewhere. We don’t eat human meat, and most of us wouldn’t eat primates. This has little to do with the actual cruelty involved, as any animal could be killed in an equally humane way. It is simply a matter of one’s personal values. The second type of cruelty towards animals is less subjective. This is of the “Life of a Cow/Chicken/Sheep/Pig/Baby Lamb” variety that **ladyfoxfyre** mentioned. It is certainly true that many animals are bred in horrific conditions. Of course, anyone who feels the need to change their diet for this reason should really become vegan, as animals are bred in equally horrible conditions for cheese, milk and eggs. Also, there should be nothing wrong with eating free-range eggs, or even meat from animals which have been raised in humane conditions. I have been told that fish and other kinds of seafood are not harvested in the same way as other animal products and does not involve as much cruelty to animals, so perhaps this is acceptable also. I feel that this is the only reason for becoming vegetarian which is actually somewhat noble, provided that the person is sincere and that there is no hypocrisy involved. For example, I can’t claim to this reasoning myself as I continue to drink milk and eat cheese without a qualm. If I went around saying that I had given up meat out of pity for farm animals, it would be pretty hypocritical of me. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/37 "2001-11-23T16:27:51Z")
Here is a good answer I have gotten from my friend in the past: It’s not so much about guilt about killing animals. Though she doesn’t like the taste of meat, it’s not exactly that, either. **She just doesn’t feel comfortable eating something which used to be sentient**. ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/38 "2001-11-23T17:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*\ **She just doesn’t feel comfortable eating something which used to be sentient**. \*\* Mmmmmmm…Soylent Green. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/39 "2001-11-23T18:05:53Z")
**Moderator’s Notes:** Well. This is the **least** contentious thread on vegetarianism I’ve ever seen on this board. However, > [@](#): > > If you want a debate, you’re in the wrong place. If you want to present your opinion, you’re in the wrong place. If you want to insult people, you’re in the wrong place. I couldn’t agree more. Therefore, I’m gonna move this thing over to Czarcasm and TVeblen in IMHO, even tho’ there was a rather recent thread on this topic there. The best comments in here seem to be suited to that forum. [Edited by UncleBeer on 11-23-2001 at 12:09 PM] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786/40 "2001-11-23T18:27:39Z")
The food fight grows hot Veggies versus meat lovers Who gives a rat’s ass? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vegetarians-i-dont-get-it/94786.md?page=3)