# Vehicle attacks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999 "2018-04-23T21:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/1 "2018-04-23T21:42:29Z")
Was just reading about [this](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/23/world/toronto-collision-pedestrians/index.html) latest attack in Canada that killed 9 and injured 16 as was thinking about the ramifications of this new vector for nuts and terrorists to kill large numbers of people. I can’t think of any way to prevent things like this, since there are always large pedestrian crowds near roadways or other areas vehicles can access, and it seems to me that the copycat effect along with wide publications by the mass media will only make this method used more in the future (as seems to be the case, as the number of these incidents seems to be growing, though that might just be perception). Can anything be done, or do we just have to suck it up and accept that things like this will happen? Is this even a problem, since out of the many 10’s of thousands of vehicle deaths a year in the US alone it’s a relatively small handful coming from such attacks? (please note, this is NOT a gun debate…there are many of them already, so please try and stick to the OP and discuss this topic without straying to others) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/2 "2018-04-23T21:48:12Z")
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/3 "2018-04-23T21:52:45Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about? Well, in this case it seems like perhaps it’s about the G7 conference (maybe?), but it could be anything, including just an accident I suppose or just some nut. So, not sure which ‘terrorists’ to really ask. The point, though…is there anything we could do about it, regardless of whether it’s a nut, a terrorist or something else? I don’t think asking what the various people who might be contemplating using this method of mass mayhem might be pissed off about is really going to do much. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/4 "2018-04-23T21:54:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about? I see what you you did there. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/5 "2018-04-23T21:57:48Z")
But you (XT) asked if there was anything we could do. Anything at all. We could try to remove the motivation for such acts. A local lunatic with a vehicle? No, not much we could do. But I don’t remember this being a regular occurance in days gone by. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/6 "2018-04-23T21:59:21Z")
- ban cattle guards on trucks unless you are a registered rancher - increased screening at truck rental agencies - close the re-rental loopholes - don’t permit automatic transmissions on trucks over a certain hp - increase the driving age on commercial vehicles to 21 or over ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/7 "2018-04-23T21:59:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about? What is your understanding of “what [they] are so pissed off about?” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/8 "2018-04-23T21:59:59Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > But you (XT) asked if there was anything we could do. Anything at all. We could try to remove the motivation for such acts. > A local lunatic with a vehicle? No, not much we could do. But I don’t remember this being a regular occurance in days gone by. No, it wasn’t. But that doesn’t mean it won’t be or isn’t today. A lot of things weren’t done regularly in the ‘days gone by’ but are today. These vehicle attacks seem to be gaining popularity in the folks who want to do mass harm, at least that’s my perception in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/9 "2018-04-23T22:02:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > - ban cattle guards on trucks unless you are a registered rancher > - increased screening at truck rental agencies > - close the re-rental loopholes > - don’t permit automatic transmissions on trucks over a certain hp > - increase the driving age on commercial vehicles to 21 or over Interesting. Have any of these mass vehicle attacks been by someone under 21? I can sort of see the others, but not sure what that one would achieve. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/10 "2018-04-23T22:02:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What is your understanding of “what [they] are so pissed off about?” I propose that we ask them. Is one in custody now in Toronto, or is he dead? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/11 "2018-04-23T22:06:54Z")
I don’t see it becoming a major terrorist tactic. Even a successful attack is only going to kill a relatively small number of people. And people already deal with the possibility of being in a car accident. Having the knowledge that terrorists are intentionally causing them would raise the anxiety but it wouldn’t be people facing a new threat. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/12 "2018-04-23T22:10:43Z")
- Protect high-traffic sidewalks with guard rails and bollards - Make collision-avoidance systems mandatory on new cars & trucks Even if they don’t eliminate terrorists, they will be worthwhile for reducing injuries and fatalities from accidents. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/13 "2018-04-23T22:41:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I propose that we ask them. Is one in custody now in Toronto, or is he dead? The Toronto attacker was arrested. I assume that by now he’s got a lawyer that will prevent people from asking “Why did you do that?” (along with any other questions). ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/14 "2018-04-23T22:55:37Z")
Ban _deathrace 2000_! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/15 "2018-04-23T22:58:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see it becoming a major terrorist tactic. Even a successful attack is only going to kill a relatively small number of people. And people already deal with the possibility of being in a car accident. Having the knowledge that terrorists are intentionally causing them would raise the anxiety but it wouldn’t be people facing a new threat. The truck attack in Nice, France killed 86 people and injured hundreds. Aside from 9/11 and attacks using explosives, I’m having trouble thinking of any terrorist attack that had that many casualties. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/16 "2018-04-23T23:07:31Z")
> [@XT](#): > > … These vehicle attacks seem to be gaining popularity in the folks who want to do mass harm, at least that’s my perception in the last few years. That certainly seems to be the case: > [@](#): > > List of terrorist attacks > This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it. > In chronological order: > > 1981 Iraqi embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon (not ramming pedestrians: ramming a specific building then exploding) > 1983 Beirut barracks bombings, Lebanon (building ramming + exploding) > 2001 Azor attack, Israel (ramming people, mostly soldiers) > 2001 Jammu and Kashmir legislative assembly car bombing (building gate ramming + exploding + gunfire) > 2002 Lyon car attack, France (building ramming + fire) > 2006 UNC SUV attack, University of North Carolina, United States (ramming people) > 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack, Scotland, United Kingdom (building ramming + detonating gas cylinders) > 2008 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming vehicles and people) > 2008 Jerusalem bulldozer attack, Israel (ramming people) > 2011 Tel Aviv truck attack, Israel (ramming vehicles and people) > 2011 Tel Aviv nightclub attack, Israel (ramming + stabbing) > May 2013 Murder of Lee Rigby, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing) > 2013 Tiananmen Square attack, China (ramming people + bursting into flames) > May 2014 Ürümqi attack, China (ramming + throwing bombs off the vehicle) > 2014 Jerusalem tractor attack, Israel (ramming people + bus) > 2014 Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu ramming attack, Canada (ramming) > October 2014 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming people) > November 2014 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming + hitting with a metal crowbar) > 2014 Alon Shvut stabbing attack, West Bank (failed ramming + stabbing) > 2014 Dijon attack, France (ramming people) > 2014 Nantes attack, France (ramming people) > 2016 Nice attack, France (87 killed ramming people + gunfire) > 2016 Ohio State University attack, United States (ramming + stabbing) > 2016 Berlin attack, Germany (shooting truck driver + ramming people) > 2017 Jerusalem truck attack, Israel (ramming people; 4 killed) > 2017 Westminster attack, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing; some victims were thrown off Westminster Bridge by the ramming; 5 killed) > 2017 Stockholm attack, Sweden (ramming people; 5 killed) > June 2017 London Bridge attack, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing; 8 killed)[32] > 2017 Finsbury Park attack, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming people; 1 killed) > June 2017 Champs-Élysées car ramming attack, Paris, France (ramming a police car; 1 attacker killed) > 2017 Paris mosque attack, failed car ramming into crowd in front of Creteil mosque in revenge for ISIS attacks[33] > 2017 Levallois-Perret attack, Levallois-Perret, France (ramming soldiers; none killed) > > List of suspected terrorist attacks > 2017 Charlottesville attack, during the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, United States (ramming people; 1 killed) > 2017 Barcelona attacks (ramming people; 13 killed) > 2017 Edmonton attack, Canada (ramming + stabbing; none killed)[34] > 2017 New York City truck attack (ramming cyclists and runners; 8 killed)[35] > 2018 Toronto van incident (ramming people; 9 killed) [36] [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-ramming_attack#List_of_terrorist_attacks) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/17 "2018-04-23T23:14:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Interesting. Have any of these mass vehicle attacks been by someone under 21? I can sort of see the others, but not sure what that one would achieve. I think this was a thinly-veiled attempt to turn this into another gun debate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/18 "2018-04-23T23:25:17Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I think this was a thinly-veiled attempt to turn this into another gun debate. Parallels and comparisons are almost inevitable on this forum, despite the OP’s plea. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/19 "2018-04-23T23:31:09Z")
An obvious, though far from immediate, solution is technology: Cars that are smart enough to prevent the driver from running into pedestrian – “_I can’t let you do that, Dave._” ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999/20 "2018-04-23T23:36:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Parallels and comparisons are almost inevitable on this forum, despite the OP’s plea. And yet, most people manage to avoid it. Perhaps the remaining few could reach a little higher. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/vehicle-attacks/812999.md?page=2)