# Venerated eco-saint grows MJ & shrooms & might lose his farm under home seizure laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526 "2008-08-10T20:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/1 "2008-08-10T20:29:24Z")
[Interesting story.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-te.md.ha.chance10aug10,0,3922004.story?page=1) A local retired teacher/farmer/eco-saint/cancer survivor got cought growing ganja & shrooms on his farm & may have his farm taken away. The amount was not a huge haul, but it was considerably bigger than a (typical) personal stash. He is being subjected to exactly the same “drug dealer” home confiscation laws that inner city dealers are subject to, but there is a hue and cry and general distress in the community about how terribly draconian this would be for this venerated man. Is this a huge double standard of one law for “them” and another law for “us”, or not? > [@](#): > > For many, Bob Chance has been the face of ecology in Harford County. > > He taught earth science during a three-decade run in the public schools - and was named to the school system’s Hall of Fame. He promoted recycling long before the government got involved. He wrote a nature column for the local paper, won election to public office, and showed countless youngsters the wonders of the great outdoors as Ranger Bob. > > And now he is, at 62, a defendant in a drug case. > > Authorities say he has been growing marijuana at the farm where he raises and sells Christmas trees. And they say they found enough of the drug, either in plant form or packaged in freezers, to roll thousands of joints - so they are taking steps to seize his farm. > > Some who know Chance think that’s going too far. He is an “old hippie,” but is no drug dealer, said Terence O. Hanley, a Bel Air town commissioner and former mayor who has known him for 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/2 "2008-08-10T20:39:20Z")
Enough pot to roll “thousands of joints?” What a menace to society. :rolleyes: Poor guy. I hope public outcry can have an effect there. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/3 "2008-08-10T21:09:42Z")
[QUOTE=astro] He is being subjected to exactly the same “drug dealer” home confiscation laws that inner city dealers are subject to \ Is this a huge double standard of one law for “them” and another law for “us”, or not? [/QUOTE] How he be treated “exactly the same” and subject to a “double standard” at the same time? That’s two exact opposites, and they can’t both be true simultaneously. And who are “them” and “us”? From what you’ve posted, it seems you and his “community” are the ones who expect a double standard. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/4 "2008-08-10T21:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] How he be treated “exactly the same” and subject to a “double standard” at the same time? That’s two exact opposites, and they can’t both be true simultaneously. And who are “them” and “us”? From what you’ve posted, it seems you and his “community” are the ones who expect a double standard. [/QUOTE] I suspect the double standard to which he refers is the attitude of the community - “for one of ours, it’s OK, but not for those weirdos in the inner city” kind of thing ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/5 "2008-08-10T21:34:21Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] How he be treated “exactly the same” and subject to a “double standard” at the same time? That’s two exact opposites, and they can’t both be true simultaneously. And who are “them” and “us”? From what you’ve posted, it seems you and his “community” are the ones who expect a double standard. [/QUOTE] I apologize for the confusion, I thought it was fairly obvious that I was positing the community distress at his prosecution, and the expectation that he should \*not \* be treated the same as drug dealer as the “double standard”. “Them” are the nasty violent inner city drug users, “us” are the nice, well meaning, ecologically conscious suburbanties who might smoke a little weed now and then. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/6 "2008-08-10T22:26:22Z")
He sounds like a cool guy to me, but I have to agree that it would only be fair to treat him the way they treat any other person caught with that kind of stash. He knew it was illegal and he chose to take the risk of getting caught with it, so it’s really nobody else’s fault but his. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/7 "2008-08-11T06:13:43Z")
This is a perfect case for jury nullification. I’d vote him not guilty in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Contrary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Contrary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrary)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/8 "2008-08-11T10:34:11Z")
[QUOTE=astro] . . .a little weed . . . [/QUOTE] That’s more than a little weed. And it is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/9 "2008-08-11T11:30:40Z")
Too much pot for individual use tells me he’s a dealer, which _might_ be excused if it’s being used exclusively for medical purposes. Unfortunately for him, though, I’m not getting too many legit hits on Google for “medical mushrooms.” ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/10 "2008-08-11T11:56:40Z")
"He is an “old hippie,” but is no drug dealer, said Terence O. Hanlley, a guy who is mad that his source is going to dry up. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/11 "2008-08-11T12:07:40Z")
Oh for God Sakes! Come on now! 12 plants and a pound in the fridge…He’s not distributiong it he’s smoking it. And probably giving it to friends - fellow ex-hippies. He’s not a dealer… I know plenty of “old hippies” and I know quite a few people who plant a few pot plants in between their corn or in a raspberry patch each year. Hell my 81 year old neighbor has a plant in his garden right now. When we have guests over and someone spots it we always get a good laugh. This guy is not pushing it on children, carrying a gun, demoralizing a township, he firggin smoking it for himself and probably like I said giving it to friends. This is the kind of bullshit charge that needs to be taken away in the country in my opinion. **Michael Pollan** - the author of _Botany of Desire_ and _Omnivore’s Dilema_ and others talks about Marijuana quite heavily in his Botany of Desire book. He talks about it’s historical roots and how he had a plant in his corn…and probably still does. No one came after him for it. This would never fly in a state like Vermont. His piddly 12 plants would be looked over and/or laughed at. People who think Marijuana = dangerous drug need to re-evaluate the dangers of other legal substances [alcohol et al] than spend their time demonizing a weed. ---
**Author:** ![3acresandatruck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e79b87/32.png) [@3acresandatruck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3acresandatruck)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/12 "2008-08-11T12:09:18Z")
[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca] This is a perfect case for jury nullification. I’d vote him not guilty in a heartbeat. [/QUOTE] I’m with you; I wouldn’t care if he was bringing in 15 tons of the finest herb daily. “Y’load 15 tons and what do you get?” Stoned out of your gourd, that’s what you get. But they won’t let either one of us onto the jury, and they won’t be too happy about it either. I was once in the jury pool for a drug trial, when they asked us if anyone couldn’t vote to convict the guy once they showed he’d violated the law. I raised my hand and was asked why not. I started to explain my view that I had to judge the law before I could judge any violation of that law. I was quickly hustled up to the judge’s bench, where a quick, quiet discussion made it clear that I wasn’t going to bend. I was removed from the pool. I was glad they hadn’t tried any coercive tactics on me and left quietly; frankly I was terrified that they’d call it contempt and jail me or something - they were _pissed_. The defendant and his coterie seemed to find the incident amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Contrary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrary)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/13 "2008-08-11T12:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] People who think Marijuana = dangerous drug need to re-evaluate the dangers of other legal substances [alcohol et al] than spend their time demonizing a weed. [/QUOTE] I said nothing about the dangers or lack thereof regarding marijuana. I said it’s illegal and that is true. He grew it, its illegal and he almost certainly had to know that. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/14 "2008-08-11T12:36:56Z")
[QUOTE=Contrary] I said nothing about the dangers or lack thereof regarding marijuana. I said it’s illegal and that is true. He grew it, its illegal and he almost certainly had to know that. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t speaking to your point. I agree. It is illegal, and the law states what he did was illegal. I can hem and haw about it all I want and that fact will not change. I think the issue is that there is an overwhelmingly large part of the population that feels keeping pot illegal is silly and costly for law enforcement. This guy in the OP is a good citizen, hurting no one, educating children, a real stand-up guy. The fact that he might have his farm taken away because he grew 12 plants on it is preposterous in my opinion. Again, I can hem and haw about it but it won’t change the legality of the weed. In my opinion, this guy in Maryland in the OP, is the very reason weed needs to be decriminalized at the very least, and out and out legalized at the very most. We are not talking about a guy with a meth-lab or cocaine distribution center, we’re talking about a guy growing some weed. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/15 "2008-08-11T14:33:20Z")
He knowingly and wilfully broke the law. He is an educated man (although ignorance is no excuse), he knew the potential penalties. Prosecute. StG ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/16 "2008-08-11T14:55:58Z")
I also vote for prosecution. If you don’t like the law, work to have it changed. But up until it does get changed, I expect violators to be prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/17 "2008-08-11T15:05:53Z")
Society is not served by prosecuting this guy. Cases like this are what jury nullification was invented for. I don’t have a double standard either. If I was on a jury, I would vote to nullify _any_ marijuana charge. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/18 "2008-08-11T15:43:09Z")
I think it’s counter-productive to mete out the same punishment to this man as would be meted out to someone operating a massive mercenary grow-op. Most of the significant harm caused by the marijuana trade is a side effect of its black market status. (“Home” invasions & other violence wrought by people looking to profit from stolen booty, enrichment of organized crime, etc.) People should be able to grow their own without losing their property. I don’t smoke much these days, but I haven’t bought weed of indeterminate origin in over ten years - because that’s potentially harmful. I’d hate to think my money was going to some group that was using it to by arms or start up a meth lab. If someone has the time to cultivate 12 piddling little plants (which takes almost as much care and attention as a larger quantity does) to cover their own needs and a few friends (who may or may not help out with the hydro bill) then that’s all to the greater good. People are going to smoke pot, there’s no reason gangs have to profit by it. If they can show Mr. Old Hippie was actually living off the avails of illicit trade, then sure, throw the book at him. Otherwise, it makes sense to take a larger view. (Not that sense has much to do with marijuana legislation over the last eighty years.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/19 "2008-08-11T16:11:03Z")
Actually, I was thinking of this case as an almost perfect argument _against_ jury nullification, especially if you think the law is unjust. People will not act to change unwise or unjust laws that are enforced only or mostly against others whom they don’t know. Letting all the “right kind” of people off the hook doesn’t make for a just outcome, it makes everything worse, because now you’re applying the same bad law _selectively_, piling discrimination on top of everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526/20 "2008-08-11T16:28:14Z")
If the only thing this man did was grow some pot to smoke and maybe give to his friends I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even if it is illegal. If he were actively selling it to kids or teens or in bulk to some one who would sell it for him, then yes, prosecute. The whole marijuana legality issue frustrates the hell out of me. Especially in situations like this one where the guy is an upstanding member of society and not harming anyone. I’m a stand-up guy in my community and I abide by all the laws - except maybe 55mph on the highway law - and when I look at this issue as an educated man I see it as something supremely flawed. I agree with others that this is not serving the public good at all. The time the police waste on this guy is costing money and resources, and it’s taking away from catching real criminals. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venerated-eco-saint-grows-mj-shrooms-might-lose-his-farm-under-home-seizure-laws/459526.md?page=2)