[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
The real danger from Chavez (and Belarus, for that matter) is not that they can present a credible force against the U.S., but that they start causing havoc in their own backyards. Cuba was a giant pain in the ass in the 1980’s. So was Nicaragua. If Chavez starts exporting ‘revolution’ to other countries in the area, supply arms to anti-government guerillas, and in general disrupting the region, it could cause all kinds of problems for the U.S.
[/QUOTE]
As it happens, both the U.S. and Venezuela are being accused of meddling in Nicaragua’s coming elections. But, at present, such interference appears to be limited to giving money and support to the favored side. For now.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
As for the helicopters, they may not be just for show. Helicopters are excellent for counter-insurgency work, razing villages of ‘collaborators’, etc. They’re a very useful tool in a dictator’s bag of tricks - the whole northern and southern no-fly zones in Iraq were established to prevent Saddam from using helicopters against his own people.
[/QUOTE]
But Chavez faces no insurgency and does not appear likely to. (The people who plotted the 2002 coup attempt are not the sort to strap on bandoliers and set up camp in the jungle.)
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
As it happens, both the U.S. and Venezuela are being accused of meddling in Nicaragua’s coming elections. But, at present, such interference appears to be limited to giving money and support to the favoured side. For now.
[/QUOTE]
The US involving itself in SA politics? Say it aint so? The US may have moved on a bit however. You haven’t helped remove a democratic government with arms in a while.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
The real danger from Chavez (and Belarus, for that matter) is not that they can present a credible force against the U.S., but that they start causing havoc in their own backyards. Cuba was a giant pain in the ass in the 1980’s. So was Nicaragua. If Chavez starts exporting ‘revolution’ to other countries in the area, supply arms to anti-government guerillas, and in general disrupting the region, it could cause all kinds of problems for the U.S.
[/QUOTE]
One or two little guys taunting the USA might not be a big deal but what happens when a bunch of these guys start ganging up on the US.
Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Belarus, Something could happen with Syria, etc. plus the two current wars. That would really spread the USA out thin.
[QUOTE=Seven]
One or two little guys taunting the USA might not be a big deal but what happens when a bunch of these guys start ganging up on the US.
Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Belarus, Something could happen with Syria, etc. plus the two current wars. That would really spread the USA out thin.
Bush seems dumbass enough to fall for it as well.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Ooh, that’s interesting! Chavez isn’t just buying Kalashnikovs, he’s buying parts and equipment to set up plants and make them in Venezuela!
Well, every emerging nation needs its own industry!
[/QUOTE]
Right. And Brazil has the Taurus firearms manufacturing locked up.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
As for the helicopters, they may not be just for show. Helicopters are excellent for counter-insurgency work, razing villages of ‘collaborators’, etc. They’re a very useful tool in a dictator’s bag of tricks - the whole northern and southern no-fly zones in Iraq were established to prevent Saddam from using helicopters against his own people.
[/QUOTE]
Dictator? Certainly you aren’t referring to Chavez? He was democratically elected and later won a recall referendum with 60% of the vote.
[QUOTE=CBEscapee]
Dictator? Certainly you aren’t referring to Chavez? He was democratically elected and later won a recall referendum with 60% of the vote.
[/QUOTE]
I am a little amazed by the general hatred for Chavez myself. He was elected democratically. He has been good for his country.
I realize he is basically anti-American, but that does not seem like enough reason for the continuing vilification he seems to undergo.
What defines him as a dictator or a bad man? I would think it would be easier to find fault with Bush and Cheney then Chavez.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
As for the helicopters, they may not be just for show. Helicopters are excellent for counter-insurgency work, razing villages of ‘collaborators’, etc. They’re a very useful tool in a dictator’s bag of tricks - the whole northern and southern no-fly zones in Iraq were established to prevent Saddam from using helicopters against his own people.
[/QUOTE]
What relevance this has to Venezuela, I cannot imagine. There is no insurgency in Venezuela. Chavez is not a dictator. He’s a legitimately elected leader with the support of his country and his administration is not waging a war against its own people. Comparing Chavez to Saddam Hussein is precisely as nuts as the folks who compare George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler. Chavez has bad taste in friends, but the USA is quite famous for having relationships with dictators, is it not? What’s good for the goose.
A person not fond of the United States =/= “dictator.”
Honestly, is there anything less worrisome than a strategic alliance between Venezuela and Belarus? Oooh, the scary Belarussians! I hear they have some bullets for the national gun now! This is almost as scary as the Togo-Leichtenstein Axis of Irrelevance.
I wasn’t comparing Chavez to Saddam, or claiming that he’s ready to start machine-gunning his population. My comment was in the context of whether or not he begins to export ‘revolution’ in surrounding countries. Mostly, it was just an offhand comment about what helicopters are good for. But they’re also useful for things like border patrol, pipeline patrol, medevac… Without knowing exactly what he bought, I have no clue what role they are intended to fill.
Chavez may not be a Saddam, but he’s also not a nice guy. He’s a thug who is crushing dissent in his country and aligning himself with a lot of very bad people.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
…snip…
Chavez may not be a Saddam, but he’s also not a nice guy. He’s a thug who is crushing dissent in his country and aligning himself with a lot of very bad people.
[/QUOTE]
I am very curious about your statement, can you provide a cite for how he is crushing dissent and that he is a thug? I am very probably ignorant on this subject, but I have not stumbled upon anything like you described.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
My comment was in the context of whether or not he begins to export ‘revolution’ in surrounding countries.
[/quote]
Why should that possibility worry us? The general political-electoral drift in SA right now is in a leftward direction anyway, so what’s to rebel against? One glaring exception is Colombia. If Chavez tries to stick his nose in there he’ll probably get it bitten off, and if he doesn’t, so much the better. Uribe needs a good hard pounding anyway. (But I really see no reason Chavez would even try.) Ya wanna talk about “not a nice guy” and “a thug who is crushing dissent in his country”? That’s Uribe. Chavez at least compares favorably to him no matter which way you look at it. As for Chavez spending money to influence the Nicaraguan election, the U.S. is in no position to point fingers.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I am a little amazed by the general hatred for Chavez myself. He was elected democratically. He has been good for his country.
I realize he is basically anti-American, but that does not seem like enough reason for the continuing vilification he seems to undergo.
What defines him as a dictator or a bad man? I would think it would be easier to find fault with Bush and Cheney then Chavez.
