# Venezuela continues its race up the list of "shittiest places on Earth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651 "2017-11-15T01:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/21 "2017-11-17T20:23:34Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You seem to have confused socialism and communism. Actually, he has it right, and a lot of people get afraid when we say (incorrectly) that the Nordic countries are socialist, because they largely _aren’t_. The people don’t have social ownership of production and services. We might call them a _welfare state_, but that term seems to be unpopular these days. Cuba is socialist, despite everyone (including Cuba herself) calling it communist. The people (via its government) owns nearly everything, but there is still money in circulation that’s used to purchase goods and services. The class system isn’t regimented like India, but class still exists. We might single out countries such as China and Cuba as being “communist” rather than “socialist” simply because they’re one party states (and China is particularly capitalist at many levels, and socialist in many industries, too). However we don’t have a Real Academy to dictate usage, so there’s a lot of muddling of meanings. Personally, I cringe every time someone says a particular state in Europe is “socialist,” because it really minimizes the evil that socialism truly is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/22 "2019-01-23T23:27:35Z")
It seems like things may be popping off in Venezuela again. Not sure how far they’ll get: > [@](#): > > Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro is under unprecedented pressure after the U.S. and other nations recognized opposition leader Juan Guaido as the country’s rightful head of state and protests against the ruling regime expanded. > > Trump formally recognized Guaido minutes after the 35-year-old president of the Venezuela National Assembly declared himself the head of state. Countries including Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, and Panama quickly followed the U.S. lead. > > Venezuelans took to the streets in the biggest opposition protests since mid-2017 to back Guaido and increase pressure on Maduro. While the leftist government crushed violent protests two year ago, this time poorer areas of the capital are leading angry demonstrations over failed public services, food scarcity and rising prices. Local press showed crowds gathering in major cities. … [Bloomberg - Maduro Squeezed as Trump Recognizes Guaido and Protests Expand](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/trump-said-to-intend-to-recognize-guaido-as-venezuela-president) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/23 "2019-01-24T00:04:05Z")
[Code Pink apparently supports Maduro](https://twitter.com/codepink/status/1088164053137076229). I guess I should’t be surprised by that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/24 "2019-01-24T00:45:04Z")
Going on about socialism is just playing into the hands of people like Maduro. He’s a pretty standard kleptocrat running a crony dictatorship in a region where socialism is popular who uses socialist rhetoric to excuse his behavior; making capitalism more popular wouldn’t change his behavior, he’d just use different rhetoric to excuse it. Stealing stuff and giving it to cronies in order to shore up your rule isn’t “socialist” behavior, it’s dictator behavior. He calls it socialist because the term is popular at home, while it makes America angry which is also popular there. Foreigners talking about the evils of socialism is exactly what he wants, it does nothing but help him. Venezuela would be better off if he _was_ actually socialist since presumably at least some of that stolen wealth would be used to help the populace in general, however inefficiently. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/25 "2019-01-24T00:45:26Z")
What will be interesting is where the military ends up falling in the mix. There’s been conflicting recent reports as they seem to get pulled in different directions. They may well not be necessary for the opposition to be successful in running off Maduro as long as they stay out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/26 "2019-01-24T00:48:47Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > What will be interesting is where the military ends up falling in the mix. There’s been conflicting recent reports as they seem to get pulled in different directions. They may well not be necessary for the opposition to be successful in running off Maduro as long as they stay out of it. I understand that he has a powerful private thuggery that is if anything better armed than the military, at least when it comes to non-heavy weapons. The Maduro regime is more of an organized crime ring in place of a government than it is anything else. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/27 "2019-01-24T00:53:21Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > What will be interesting is where the military ends up falling in the mix. There’s been conflicting recent reports as they seem to get pulled in different directions. They may well not be necessary for the opposition to be successful in running off Maduro as long as they stay out of it. Agreed. It’s not clear to me what the “General of the Army of Venezuela” title signifies or how much actual power this man has, but … > [@](#): > > [Through a video, the General of the Army of Venezuela Jesus Alberto Milano Mendoza called for the military to rule in favor of the people and asked military commanders to “take control of their units” and “march peacefully in the streets”.](https://twitter.com/StratSentinel/status/1088148584208437248) actual video here (in Spanish) > [@](#): > > [ATTENTIONS: > > # 23Ene > > General of the army division Jesus Alberto Milano Mendoza pronounces and calls the #FAN, ignores NicolasMaduro and recognizes @jguaido > As commander in chief of the NATIONAL ARMED FORCE #EEUU 23ECalleHastaQueSeVaya]([https://twitter.com/Rodolfo38252899/status/1088118582825943040](https://twitter.com/Rodolfo38252899/status/1088118582825943040)) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/28 "2019-01-24T01:01:48Z")
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with our (USA) diplomats over the next three days. Maduro ordered them out of the country in 72 hours. The administration appears to be telling Maduro to fuck off with that. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/29 "2019-01-24T08:49:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Agreed. It’s not clear to me what the “General of the Army of Venezuela” title signifies or how much actual power this man has, but … It means the translator doesn’t know mucho English and used the wrong preposition. Milano is a general in (not “of”) the Venezuelan army. [The Venezuelan army has 9 officer levels, he’s a 7](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/General#Venezuela); equivalent to a US O-7 (Major General; 2-star General) according to the [chart here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_army_officer_ranks_of_the_Americas). ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/30 "2019-01-24T15:55:17Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > However we don’t have a Real Academy to dictate usage, so there’s a lot of muddling of meanings. Personally, I cringe every time someone says a particular state in Europe is “socialist,” because it really minimizes the evil that socialism truly is. That’s part of the problem. People mis-use these words all the time… Often deliberately. There’s no shortage of Republicans who cry ‘socialism’ at anything and everything they disagree with, because it provokes an emotional reaction from people. Same thing with words like ‘fascist,’ which have essentially turned into meaningless insults rather than referring to actual political philosophies. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/31 "2019-01-24T16:28:46Z")
A bunch of commies are getting in on the action of supporting Maduro: > [@](#): > > We stand for the agency of the people of Venezuela and against US imperialism! #HandsOffVenezuela #LaPatriaSigue - [North Jersey DSA retweeting Central Jersey DSA](https://twitter.com/CentralNJDSA/status/1088205812084948992) Marco Rubio points out the interesting list of countries they have chosen to align themselves with: > [@](#): > > Look at the long & growing list of nations who recognize the legitimacy of President Guaido in #Venezuela. > > Now compare that to the ones who still openly support Maduro: > > - Cuba > - Turkey > - Russia > - Iran > - China > - Bolivia > - Nicaragua - [Senator Marco Rubio](https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1088408010031054848) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/32 "2019-01-24T18:57:52Z")
I would think that there is nothing that could rally popular support to Maduro (or anyone in South/Central America) then the US backing his opponent. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/33 "2019-01-24T19:06:02Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I would think that there is nothing that could rally popular support to Maduro (or anyone in South/Central America) then the US backing his opponent. One of the funniest tweets I saw yesterday was a video of some Venezuelan men offering to build President Trump’s wall (and paint it) if he will help them get rid of Maduro: [link](https://twitter.com/yose_leidys/status/1088253207439179776) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/34 "2019-01-24T23:04:48Z")
[NYT - Venezuela Military Backs Maduro, as Russia Warns U.S. Not to Intervene](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/24/world/americas/venezuela-news-maduro-russia.html) > [@](#): > > The leader of Venezuela’s armed forces declared loyalty to President Nicolás Maduro on Thursday and said the opposition’s effort to replace him with a transitional government amounted to an attempted coup. > > The pronouncement by the defense minister, Vladimir Padrino López, came a day after an opposition lawmaker proclaimed himself the country’s rightful leader during nationwide protests and pleaded with the armed forces to abandon Mr. Maduro. > … That’s not really a surprise given that (the Venezuelan) Vlad is basically Maduro’s right-hand man: > [@](#): > > In 2013, Padrino became the commander in chief of the Venezuelan Armed forces.[1] On 24 October 2014, Padrino was named by President Nicolas Maduro to be the successor of Carmen Melendez as the Minister of Defense. Currently Padrino and the Minister of People’s Power for Defense hold the positions of Strategic Operational commander of the Bolivarian National Armed Forces. > > **Increased authority** > > On 12 July 2016, President Nicolás Maduro granted Padrino the powers to distribute food and medicine, authority over all Bolivarian missions, while also having his military command five of Venezuela’s main ports,[3] with Maduro stating:[4] > > > [@](#): > > > > All ministries and government institutions are subordinated to the National Command of the Great Mission for Safe Sovereign and Safe Supply, which is under the command of the President and of the top General, Vladimir Padrino López. > > This action performed by President Maduro made General Padrino one of the most powerful people in Venezuela, possibly “the second most powerful man in Venezuelan politics”.[4][5] The appointment of Padrino was also seen to be similar to the Cuban government’s tactic of granting the Cuban military the power to manage the Cuba’s economy.[4][5] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir\_Padrino\_L%C3%B3pez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Padrino_L%C3%B3pez) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/35 "2019-01-24T23:13:36Z")
Socialism never works. It drives away the successful people that fuel the economy and excessive spending bankrupts the country. That’s why the drift in that direction here is so disturbing. Some people never learn from history’s past failures. > **[Elizabeth Warren proposes 'wealth tax' on Americans with more than $50...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html)** > > Warren's idea comes alongside other Democrats' plans to raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans to pay for ambitious policy goals. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/36 "2019-01-24T23:33:28Z")
People in Pinochets regime were being arrested and prosecuted for human rights abuses decades after the dictatorship fell. Hopefully that fact isn’t lost on Maduro’s supporters. Maduro will go down eventually, and his cronies could end up in prison even if they are old men when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/37 "2019-01-24T23:39:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Socialism never works. It drives away the successful people that fuel the economy and excessive spending bankrupts the country. > > That’s why the drift in that direction here is so disturbing. > > Some people never learn from history’s past failures. > [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html) Dude. If you really wanna rehabilitate the word “socialism” in America, keep on equating slightly higher taxes on billionaires with socialism. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/38 "2019-01-24T23:39:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > People in Pinochets regime were being arrested and prosecuted for human rights abuses decades after the dictatorship fell. Hopefully that fact isn’t lost on Maduro’s supporters. Maduro will go down eventually, and his cronies could end up in prison even if they are old men when it happens. I suspect their top concern right now is avoiding getting [lined up against a wall and shot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu#Death) or [having a bayonet rammed up their asses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Muammar_Gaddafi) in the next few days / weeks. I don’t know though, perhaps they don’t feel particularly threatened by events of the last couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/39 "2019-01-24T23:47:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Dude. If you really wanna rehabilitate the word “socialism” in America, keep on equating slightly higher taxes on billionaires with socialism. The socialists themselves are doing a fine job of equating it with support for failed regimes: [DSA Los Angeles](https://twitter.com/DSA_LosAngeles/status/1088513873521532928) > [@](#): > > We condemn the US-backed coup in Venezuela — the newest horrific development in a long lineage of US interventionism & imperialism in the Global South. We will ALWAYS stand against US imperialism & bipartisan coups. Solidarity with the Bolivarian revolution. #HandsOffVenezuela [NYC-DSA Anti-War](https://twitter.com/nycDSAantiwar/status/1088281494508974086) > [@](#): > > We condemn today’s US-engineered coup in Venezuela. We reject a return to twentieth century gringo interventions and coups in Latin America. We stand against against US imperialism and interventionism; we stand in solidarity with the Bolivarian revolution! [Metro Atlanta DSA](https://twitter.com/MetroATLDSA/status/1088509272579866624): > [@](#): > > We call for an end to all US interference in Venezuelan politics and oppose any military action against Venezuela. Venezeula’s resources belong to the people of Venezuela, not the American ruling class. > > Our statement #HANDSOFFVENEZUELA #YankeeGoHome [Metro DC DSA](https://twitter.com/mdc_dsa/status/1088146364981305348): > [@](#): > > As reactionaries leading the federal government bless a potential coup in Venezuela, we recognize that American interventionism is one of the greatest forces for evil in the world. Foreign policy MUST be democratized. We must bring the ruling class to heel. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651/40 "2019-01-25T00:02:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Socialism never works. It drives away the successful people that fuel the economy and excessive spending bankrupts the country. > > That’s why the drift in that direction here is so disturbing. > > Some people never learn from history’s past failures. > [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html) What is socialism? Can you offer your definition of it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuela-continues-its-race-up-the-list-of-shittiest-places-on-earth/801651.md?page=3)