# Venezuela's Chavez threatens to give away F-16 technology - Is this a big deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804 "2005-11-06T17:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/1 "2005-11-06T17:34:14Z")
The [circa 1970’s F-16](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon) is a bit long in the tooth at this point. Would China getting it’s hands on an F-16 (if it hasn’t already) be a big deal in terms of allowing them to advance their military aircraft technology? Beyond that, let’s assume Chavez’s gripe that the US is stalling Venezuela’s ability to keep the plans updated and in good repair has some merit, and that these planes are vital to maintaining Venezuelan military strength. What are his real world remedies? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/2 "2005-11-06T17:36:31Z")
Forgot the story link [Venezuela threatens US over F-16s](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4398914.stm#junk) > [@](#): > > President Hugo Chavez has warned the US he could give some of his country’s F-16 fighter jets to Cuba or China. > Mr Chavez accused the US of breaking a contract to supply spare parts for the jets it sold to Venezuela in the 1980s. > > He suggested that Washington would be less than pleased if military rivals gained access to the advanced planes. > > The F-16s were sold to previous governments that had better relations with the White House. The US sees Mr Chavez as an unfriendly head of state. > > The Venezuelan president’s latest provocative announcement came during a nationally televised address, dominated by appeals to Latin Americans to end the dominance of the US. > > Speaking of the fighter planes, he said he was “only thinking out loud”. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/3 "2005-11-06T17:37:05Z")
Is Hugo Chavez crazy? What’s up with that odd duck? Adam ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/4 "2005-11-06T17:38:13Z")
Chavez is a blowhard. Nothing he really says has any merit. I doubt turning over 1970s technology would mean anything, but it would be in violation of the agreements upon which the planes were sold. If he seriously would go through with it, the US should, if possible bomb and destroy all the planes. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/5 "2005-11-06T17:47:51Z")
The Chinese have the plane. A Pakistani (IIRC) flew one to the Middle Kingdom years ago. Still the danger is Chavez will put V on a Pentagon black list. This would mean that even after Chavez leaves office, V could not buy weapons or parts from the US. This could lead to a homegrown weapons industry (a la Chile and Iran) or going to the world market and avoiding America’s moderating influence. Why they heck do they have, need or want jets anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/6 "2005-11-06T17:59:04Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Why they heck do they have, need or want jets anyway? Uh … was this serious? You could say the same about any country. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/7 "2005-11-06T18:02:00Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > If he seriously would go through with it, the US should, if possible bomb and destroy all the planes. > [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Why they heck do they have, need or want jets anyway? To defend themselves from people like **zuma**. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/8 "2005-11-06T19:20:05Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > Chavez is a blowhard. Nothing he really says has any merit. I doubt turning over 1970s technology would mean anything, but it would be in violation of the agreements upon which the planes were sold. If he seriously would go through with it, the US should, if possible bomb and destroy all the planes. I guess because the mainstream media forgot to mention it, then if Chavez mentions that the US is breaking a contract has no merit? Interesting conclusion. [http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/10/us-roadblocks-re-the-venezuelaisrael-f16-upgrade-politics-or-protectionism/index.php#orison\_mc](http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/10/us-roadblocks-re-the-venezuelaisrael-f16-upgrade-politics-or-protectionism/index.php#orison_mc) > [@](#): > > Citing members of the Israeli defense ministry, the Israeli newspaper Yedidot Aharonot reports that pressure from Washington has now forced Israel to freeze a $100 million contract with Venezuela to upgrade its U.S.-manufactured F-16 fighter jets. The Fuerza Aaerea Venezolana (FAV) had originally purchased the F-16A/B aircraft in 1982. Israel replaces most of the original American equipment inside its F-16s with Israeli-designed electronics and other modules, making companies like Israel Aircraft Industries a viable second source project lead and integrator for F-16 maintenance and upgrade deals. > > … > > Defence Industry Daily Op/Ed: Our Take > > While DID considers Israel’s protectionist concerns understandable, the extent of Chavez’ belligerence and the level of concern he is raising in his region make it far more likely that recent American efforts are motivated by geopolitics rather than protectionism. > > If the Venezuelan F-16 upgrade contract is indeed canceled, we do not forsee any American companies stepping into the void. Support for this belief is strengthened by a Reuters AlertNet report that according to Spain’s ABC newspaper, Washington is also considering blocking the transfer of U.S. technology used in aircraft that Spain had planned to sell to Venezuela. > > In short, this has all the hallmarks of a geopolitical weapons supplier squeeze, which makes it very similar to the efforts that America is mounting with respect to China. An effort that, not coincidentally, also sparked real friction between Israel and the USA over arms exports that the USA had once actively encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/9 "2005-11-06T19:46:05Z")
The problem with brinksmanship is that one should, ideally, issue threats that the opponent is concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/10 "2005-11-06T21:57:52Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > I doubt turning over 1970s technology would mean anything, but it would be in violation of the agreements upon which the planes were sold. . If I understand correctly, the US too is in violation of said agreements by not providing parts… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/11 "2005-11-07T04:28:13Z")
Are those treaties public? I suspect there’s a good chance both sides have escape clauses built-in. That’s pretty standard. ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/12 "2005-11-07T07:37:59Z")
[Aside] The US is currently going all out to try and break into the Indian arms market, dominated by Russia and Israel. India has an order for about 126 strike aircraft, and the US is offering F-16s and F-18s ([link](http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006645.php)). There is much reluctance in India to even consider the American offer, given its history of imposing sanctions on India… this news is obviously not going to help the US’ case. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/13 "2005-11-07T08:05:38Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > I doubt turning over 1970s technology would mean anything, Well…It wouldnt be 70’s technology. The F16 has changed a great deal over the years inside…just the outside looks the same. The F16 is still undefeated in Air to Air Combat AFAIK… ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-chavez-threatens-to-give-away-f-16-technology-is-this-a-big-deal/329804/14 "2005-11-07T12:47:12Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > To defend themselves from people like **zuma**. All I meant was if there were any danger of technology falling into the hands of others, and that if that threatened the security of the US, then the planes should be destroyed before delivery. Hugo doesn’t need to fear me. I think we’d be stupid not to destroy the planes if they would compromise our security. That said, I don’t know if there would be a security breach should Hugo fly the planes to China, so I apologise if I wasn’t clear enough. Others here have spoken to whether this technology would be valuable, and I find their input informing.