# Venezuela's Situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260 "2003-01-02T19:50:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/21 "2003-01-05T08:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yogisanchez \* > \*\*Workers are NOT going to work!!! what about transnationals like Procter&Gamble, Microsoft… they’re not working because the workers are not going! how are they preventing workers from going to work??? \*\* The anti-Chavez forces are using every tactic to prevent the people from going to work, including provacateur actions such as the Dec. 6 shooting, the Dec. 3 torching of a bus carrying workers, and blockades preventing oil tankers from carrying oil. In Dec., workers at a Pepsi-Cola plant took it over after management tried to prevent them from working. Their slogan is “Fabrica Cerrada - Fabrica Tomada”, or “Close the Factories? We’ll take them over!” Carlos Ortega, head of one of the opposition unions-asked for an external intervention to remove Chavez. That is the “democratic” opposition. What we are seeing in Venezuela is a class war. The ruling class has lost its monopoly on moral rulings, and is now engaged in vulgar propaganda to try to maintain its fragile grip on power. They can see their position of privilege about to slip through their fingers. And yet, for all of this fear, Chavez has done nothing to touch the capitalist system apart from a few minor reforms to help the poor. What they are afraid of, though, is a real consolidation of democratic rule, which would abruptly end their hold on power. The seeds of economic democracy have been planted by Chavez, and the oligarchy is determined to prevent that flower from blooming. They are pulling out all the stops to nip that problem in the bud. ---
**Author:** ![Guishe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3be4f8/32.png) [@Guishe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guishe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/22 "2003-01-05T08:56:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by GIGObuster_ > This is unpopular I know, but I only perceive a denial that the opposition has no coherent point: “Chavez should renounce. We will use force to get Chavez. I for one, living in Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, had never heard that the opposition would try te get Chavez out using force, maybe you are confused because what is said is that we are willing ti fight for our rights and freadom; specially now when these two are in stake (As you might know, Chavez recently anounced to the world that he was willing to declare an "estado de excepción"m i don´t the exact translation but this means an end to the constitutional guaranties and this, my friend, is what our dear president is after. In January 3rd, some amateur videos captured several images of a national guard pushing and practicaly hiting a woman armed with nothing but a flag and a lot of courage when they where repressing the oppositions march… while, on the other hand, only two or three national guards were urging on the officialist party (which by the way had there faces covered for them not to be recognized and where throwing bottles, stones and other objects), to leave as if they were dealing with live stock and harmless cows… how are we suposed to react upon such violence upon us, the opposition, while the ones who are proved to do the real harm and represent real threats get nothing but a warning and are let go!!! > [@](#): > > Chavez going to other countries, while at the same time, a “strong” opposition is going, shows that he is confident he will weather this storm As for this matter, I seriously doubt that spending great amounts of money to make incredibly expensive travels can qualify as confidence; IMHO that is very irresponsible because is just stupid to go on and waste our nation’s money when there is barely enough money to pay for teachers and seringes in hospitas (another example of this is the purchase of a new plane, an AirBus, which costs about 70 million US dollars- [http://www.venezuelatoday.org/02-03-01\_es.htm](http://www.venezuelatoday.org/02-03-01_es.htm) (this page is in spanish… but numbers are the universal language)- . > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chumpsky_ > Chavez has never done anything to upset democracy in Venezuela Lets look back, February 4th 1992, Leutienent Colonel Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías records on Venezuelan history a failed coup d’etat against de president at that time, Carlos Andrés Pérez. > [@](#): > > The citizens of Venezuela have not gone on strike. What is happening in Venezuela is not a lock-out because it is not the management that wont let the workers do their jobs for them to agree to certain terms (deffinition of lock-out), it may not be considered as a strike because the workers are not ceasisng their jobs in order to get the employers to agreed to their terms; but wat IS happening in my beloved country is that both workers and employers are ceasing their opperations as a form of protest against the current government, you call it what you want… (by the way **Chumpsky** , you might want to check on your sources and evaluate their reliability). ---
**Author:** ![yogisanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@yogisanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yogisanchez)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/23 "2003-01-05T09:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*The anti-Chavez forces are using every tactic to prevent the people from going to work, including provacateur actions such as the Dec. 6 shooting, the Dec. 3 torching of a bus carrying workers, and blockades preventing oil tankers from carrying oil… \*\* shooting??? look at the pictures!!! you only read what chavists say! LIES!!! What??? a bus full of workers??? are you dreaming about this country??? We’re not producing oil! Workers ARE NOT GOING TO WORK to produce it!!! ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/24 "2003-01-05T09:04:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guishe \* > **I for one, living in Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, had never heard that the opposition would try te get Chavez out using force, …** JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY! They already tried to oust him by force once, and leaders of the opposition like Carlos Ortega have asked for an external intervention to remove Chavez! What in the good bloody hell are you freaking talking about!!? The opposition wouldn’t try to get Chavez out by force!!?? THEY ALREADY TRIED AND WILL TRY AGAIN! Good god! ---
**Author:** ![Guishe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3be4f8/32.png) [@Guishe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guishe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/25 "2003-01-05T09:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chumpsky_The anti-Chavez forces are using every tactic to prevent the people from going to work, including provacateur actions such as the Dec. 6 shooting I repeat, check your sources my friend, the shootings on Dec. 6 were made in Plaza Francia, this square is known as one of the main gathering centers of the opposition, the people who where killed, presumptly by Joao De Goubeia, where declared members of the opposition. The suspect, De Goubeia, is beleived to have strong tidings with members of the actual governmet and had a huge account in dollars that is very unlikely for a cab driver to accumulate (even though the account is incredibly large, i still give the beneffit of the doubt; but it is extremely doubtful the source from wich the money came…). If this is not enough, on his TV show, Chavez declared that De Goubeia had not been in the country and that he came from Portugal and his flight stopped in Brazil and then arrived to Venezuela; the airline in question (I don´t remember the name of the airline… air portugal i think…), doesn’t make any stops in Brazil on flights destined to Venezuela and the government of Portugal denied the presence of the suspect in Portugal by international papers. > [@](#): > > JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY! They already tried to oust him by force once, and leaders of the opposition like Carlos Ortega have asked for an external intervention to remove Chavez You’re right, he did…why do you think Cesar Gaviria, the secretary general for the OEA, is here…? > [@](#): > > What we are seeing in Venezuela is a class war This is not entirely false, you are right if you are telling me that there is some hate between upper and lower classes… but, if would have heard Chevez´s speeches througout all this years you would now that this hatred has been cultivated by him in the lower classes to be projected to the upper classes, hatred that WAS NOT PRESENT before this man came to power. ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/26 "2003-01-05T10:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guishe \* > \*\*This is not entirely false, you are right if you are telling me that there is some hate between upper and lower classes… but, if would have heard Chevez´s speeches througout all this years you would now that this hatred has been cultivated by him in the lower classes to be projected to the upper classes, hatred that WAS NOT PRESENT before this man came to power. \*\* That is such bullshit, which anybody who actually knows anybody from the working classes in Venezuela could tell you. It is interesting, though, as yet another instance of ruling class ignorance of the bitter resentment the lower classes have for them. What Chavez has done is to bring the class struggle to the forefront. He did not create the class struggle–this has existed ever since the ancestors of today’s ruling classes first conquered the land and stole it from the ancestors of today’s working classes. But, with Chavez in power the poor of Venezuela finally have a voice and have power, a chance to finally build for themselves a decent life. The opulence of the ruling classes comes at the cost of the soul-crushing misery that most of the country lives in, as they toil to build the wealth that the ruling class enjoys. Now the working class has a chance to take some of this wealth for themselves. Really, the ruling class should be grateful that Chavez is as moderate as he is. So far he has not even hinted at trying to establish a socialist system or really to touch the capitalist system. The ruling class, as they always are, are much more keenly class conscious than the working class, and much more aware of the class structure that maintains their positions of privilege. The real crime of Chavez is in attempting to make the working class as class conscious as the ruling class. Class consciousness in the working class is the ultimate danger to the ruling class. When class divisions are sharpened, as they have been in Venezuela, the class war can break out into either civil war and revolution, or the ruling classes can resort to repression ala Hitler’s blackshirts or Mussolinis brownshirts, or Pinochet’s death squads. The ruling class in Venezuela is at the moment powerless to bring the full power of such repressive mechanisms to bear, and are thus flailing around with whatever is at their disposal. With Latin America turning leftward, the fate of Venezuela could fortell the fate of the entire continent. My prediction is that it could go one of two directions. The oligarchy could regain its supremacy and unleash a wave of repression to consolidate its rule and crush the popular organizations, as was done in Chile. Or, Chavez could hold onto power and widen democracy to bring affluence to more of the people of Venezuela. Anybody who cares about the working people of the world should be supporting the poor of Venezuela and their leader Chavez. ---
**Author:** ![ZooMetropolis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e480ec/32.png) [@ZooMetropolis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZooMetropolis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/27 "2003-01-05T13:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chumpsky_ > That is such bullshit, which anybody who actually knows anybody from the working classes in Venezuela could tell you. And of course, you are the best example of the Venezuelan working class :rolleyes: I believe in Guishe’s affirmation, and by the way, he has a lot more chances than you of knowing someone from the Venezuelan working class. On this thread: [Venezuela’s Political Situation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148370&perpage=50&pagenumber=1), you repeated something in varied ways: > [@](#): > > just can’t stand to have a president who actually does something for the poor of the country > [@](#): > > Chavez “bribed” the masses by trying to alleviate the crushing poverty that most people in Venezuela live under. And not once, you have answered my response: > [@](#): > > 1. What has done Chavez for the poor? > 2. What has done Chavez for the economy? > > (Are you aware that this two questions are bonded?) Now you have a chance 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/28 "2003-01-05T13:54:00Z")
I’m trying to remember the name of the other Famous Person with a problematic government who billed himself as the “Friend of the Poor”. The consensus of the dining room here is that it was either Pinochet, Stalin, or Aristide, but I can’t find a quote. And no, it wasn’t Jesus… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/29 "2003-01-05T15:36:34Z")
Friend of the poor. Man that is utter BS, an old strategy of populist governments trying to instill fear in the masses and make themselves the superheroes that will protect them from the Evil Capitalists while at the same time pillaging the country. Such BS. And yes, **DDG** , Friend of the Poor is one of Aristide’s favorite phrases, he sometime ago proclaimed that he was the only politician in Haiti that loved black people, because he was one of them. Not only is he trying to feed the flames of classism but also the flames of racism. And _that_ in Haiti is VERY dangerous. But he’s not the only one, the Friend of the Poor is an old strategy, and it has been used ad frigging nauseam by politicians to explain their ineptitude, you know “I can’t do a thing, I would but they have tied me to my seat”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/30 "2003-01-05T15:47:39Z")
They all did, though I suspect you may be talking about Juan Peron. Pinochet delivered a lot of propoganda, mostly here, that he was protecting the naive working class from the clutches of those perfidious Commies and thier labor leader dupes. Car bombing an American citizen on the streets of Washington DC was something of a rough patch, public relations wise. Stalin, of course, as Chairman of the Party, was the very embodiment of the dicatorship of the proletariat. According to theory. Aristide is another case altogether, I never quite knew what the heck he was about. However, when one has “Papa Doc” Duvlaier as a comparison, its almost impossible not to look good. Interesting historical side note: how Papa Doc solved the problem of maintaining the loyalty of the “Palace Guard”. His secret police was called the “Tonton Macout” and made the Gestapo look like social workers. He didnt allow them to own anything. No money, no bank accounts, nothing. But they were permitted to walk into any store and take whatever they wanted. A few luxury goods stores that catered to the vanishingly small ruling class were exempt. They carried no ID, just thier uniform cheap suit and wraparound shades. Nobody who wasn’t a Tonton would dare pretend that he was. Thus was order and stability maintained. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/31 "2003-01-05T16:19:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **elucidator** \* > Interesting historical side note: how Papa Doc solved the problem of maintaining the loyalty of the “Palace Guard”. > > Thus was order and stability maintained. Don’t forget that he convinced The Masses [sup]TM[/sup] that he was a voodoo priest and that he had powers. Man, how easy it is to BS an uneducated country. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/32 "2003-01-05T18:17:59Z")
Juan Peron, yes, that’s who I was thinking of, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/33 "2003-01-05T18:45:18Z")
**yogisanchez** : > [@](#): > > YOU ARE THE LYING BASTARD!!! [Moderator Hat ON] Cool it, guys. Do not call your fellow posters “bastard[s]” in this forum. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Guishe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3be4f8/32.png) [@Guishe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guishe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/34 "2003-01-05T20:33:18Z")
Im another guy how lives in Caracas, Venezuela. Look Chumpsky obviusly you are not living in this county, and obviusly you are not aware of what is happening in here but im gonna tell you one thing for sure, President Chavez is one liying SOB, he has kiled innocent people, he robed The Venezuela´s Central Bank. Do you really think this guy havent done anything? do you think he did those houses he promised to the poor people? have you seen a board( i dont know the exact translation) of the economy here? dude, OUR COUNTrY IS FALLIN APART, there is no oil at all, families are running out of money in there baks acounts, we “Los Venezolanos” cant wait to August for an election, we need to get this guy out and i mean NOW. P.D: Sorry for the english ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/35 "2003-01-05T21:07:40Z")
The English is fine. 🙂 > [@](#): > > a board( i dont know the exact translation) of the economy here? A chart? Statistics? [http://www.latin-focus.com/countries/venezuela/veneimonetary.htm](http://www.latin-focus.com/countries/venezuela/veneimonetary.htm) [http://www.latin-focus.com/countries/venezuela/vencpi.htm](http://www.latin-focus.com/countries/venezuela/vencpi.htm) [http://www.wto.org/english/tratop\_e/tpr\_e/tp207\_e.htm](http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/tpr_e/tp207_e.htm) > [@](#): > > 29 November 2002 > TRADE POLICY REVIEW: VENEZUELA > > More private investment needed to diversify the economy > > A WTO report, along with the policy statement of the Government of Venezuela, will serve as a basis for the second Trade Policy Review (TPR) of Venezuela by the Trade Policy Review Body of the WTO on 27 and 29 November 2002. > > A report on the trade policies and practices of Venezuela, published November 29 by the WTO Secretariat, says that steps have been taken to liberalize the economy but that more private investment is required to achieve greater diversification. To do so, the report also says, Venezuela needs to address the perception of insufficient predictability in its institutional and legal framework, which could be done by following stricter practices in its trade policies and binding recent liberalization measure. [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html) > [@](#): > > The petroleum sector dominates the economy, accounting for roughly a third of GDP, around 80% of export earnings, and more than half of government operating revenues. Venezuelan officials estimate that GDP grew by 2.7% in 2001. A strong rebound in international oil prices fueled the recovery from the steep recession in 1999. Nevertheless, a weak nonoil sector and capital flight - and a temporary fall in oil prices - undercut the recovery. In early 2002, President CHAVEZ changed the exchange rate regime from a crawling peg to a free floating exchange rate, causing the bolivar to depreciate significantly. The BBC has an analysis of what Chavez has done so far. From April 2002. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1925514.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1925514.stm) > [@](#): > > [In 1998]…With unprecedented support of about 60% of the electorate, mainly among the disadvantaged majority so often overlooked by previous leaders, Mr Chavez planned to reduce the country’s debilitating dependence on oil. > > It was a worthy aim. The world’s fourth-biggest oil exporter, Venezuela relies on petroleum for four-fifths of its exports and one-third of its gross domestic product. This made a lot of Venezuelans rich, but it also dangerously sucked money away from the rest of the economy. Hefty crude oil exports artificially boosted the currency, the bolivar, making imports cheap and rendering local manufacturers unable to compete. Of the country’s $3bn-4bn in annual foreign investment, almost every cent went into oil. > > But Mr Chavez saw reforming PDVSA as a political, not merely an economic imperative. By the 1990s the vast oil firm, he saw, had become a state within a state, siphoning petrodollars away from the country’s poor. He was right, but PDVSA was also “one of the best-run firms in Latin America,” says Justine Thody, Latin America analyst at the Economist Intelligence Unit. > > The Chavez government starved PDVSA of finance, ramped up the burden of tax and red-tape, and appointed a series of inexperienced political allies to run the firm. The result was that dollar earnings from oil were down 20% year on year at the beginning of 2002, bringing to an abrupt end years of double-digit growth in the industry. > > And the result of PDVSA’s stumble was that Venezuelans started to get seriously nervous about the bolivar… Does that pretty much sum it up? BTW, you know that there’s something very wrong with an oil-producing nation’s economy when it has to _import_ gasoline. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/01/04/venezuela.clash/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/01/04/venezuela.clash/index.html) > [@](#): > > Late last month Chavez bought a tanker of gasoline from Brazil to provide emergency fuel for the country. Two other tankers were lying off the coast of Venezuela and a Russian tanker was said to be on its way. ---
**Author:** ![yogisanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@yogisanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yogisanchez)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/36 "2003-01-05T21:08:41Z")
I don’t know really what Chavez has done for the poor. Hey Chumpsky can u tell me just one thing that President Chávez has done for the poor? The only thing he has done is make the poor ‘poorest’ :S More poor! and the not so poor… poor! and he and his buddies are making rich. I’m wondering again… Where is the FIEM’s money?? This country need a solution NOW, we can wait any longer. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/37 "2003-01-05T22:10:13Z")
**Chumpski** as I see it you do get some of it right. Your problem is that you have no experience with Latin American issues. But I do. Calling **Chumpski** a total liar will not get you far here **yogi** After I checked on my own, what the Venezuelan media was doing during and after the coup, I have arrived to the conclusion that the reliability of the mainstream TV and newspapers from Venezuela is close to 0. OTHA I don’t trust Chavez much, The BBC has also given up on who is telling the truth regarding the shootings in the protests. The reason is obvious: both sides are armed. All the confrontations so far have to have the context that both sides think they are right and they are willing to fight for it. The deal breaker here is that the OEA has pragmatically backed Chavez. Other South American nations are supporting Chavez. The opposition should compromise, Period. It is truly dumb to say that all the economy is going to pot because of Chavez, when the big cause is the strike by oil workers that are supposed to be state workers. All the independent sources I see tell that the support for that strike is not complete at all. And it is fading. **Chumpsky** can say that this is class warfare. IMO It will be only if the democratic ideal is perverted. I think democracy is also a tool to defuse real class war. A while ago, I said that a Pinochet will come if the opposition continues in this path. I have to modify that, I forgot that poor people, unlike in Chile, are armed too. This is the pragmatic reason I think the opposition, having no popular leader, is killing themselves, and I think if by hook or by crook you manage to win, a bigger powder keg will come. Time to compromise, and accept the part of the responsibility that you have in this mess. Or maybe not, while checking other sources, it looks like some opposition leaders are ready to jump ship to Spain, so much for fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Guishe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3be4f8/32.png) [@Guishe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guishe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/38 "2003-01-05T22:20:42Z")
I will like to state that the last thread under my name as not made by me but by a friend of mine under my login name by mistake. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/39 "2003-01-05T23:18:13Z")
The message quoted in the OP appears to wildly overstate the case, particularly the presumed claim that mercenaries are being hired to enforce order and the comparison to handing the US government over to bin Laden. Count me among those who are unclear as to why the opposition cannot wait for a binding referendum in August, when a) there apparently is no particular opposition leader who could win, and b) any referendum held before August apparently would be non-binding (i.e. Chavez would be under no obligation to step down). Regarding the semantic issue raised by another poster, I fail to see how a work stoppage called for by both management AND unions can be labeled a ‘lockout’. The fact that that those who have walked out include both management and labor, and the fact that a broad range of industries are involved, seem to make it a general strike, as the term is popularly understood. I made a search (probably of nowhere near **DDG** ’s efficiency) for any reference at all to the action being called a ‘lockout’ by either side. If someone can point to a credible cite justifying the use of the teerm ‘lockout’, I’d appreciate it. I’ll just mention here, by way of full(ish) disclosure, that I work for an international oil field services company that does considerable business with PDVSA. I am not, however, associated with any of our Venezuelan operations and do not have any special access to information about the strike other than public news reports. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260/40 "2003-01-06T05:58:22Z")
Both [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) and the BBC online give me no results for “venezuela lockout”. Workers World called the one in October a lockout. [http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/venez1031.php](http://www.workers.org/ww/2002/venez1031.php) > [@](#): > > New coup threat in Venezuela > > On Oct. 21, Venezuela’s wealthy bosses staged a 12-hour lockout across the South American country, which they called a “general strike,” in an effort to force President Hugo Chavez to call early presidential elections. > > Supporters of Chavez’s progressive government declared the lockout a failure. “The country did not stop. It’s on its feet and running,” said Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel. Oil production and export, the pillars of Venezuela’s economy, were unaffected. The Socialist Worker calls it a lockout. [http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/434/434\_05\_Venezuela.shtml](http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-1/434/434_05_Venezuela.shtml) > [@](#): > > VENEZUELA > The new push to topple Chávez > By Lee Sustar | January 3, 2003 | Page 5 > > THE MONTH-OLD national “strike” in Venezuela is in fact an employers’ lockout–and the latest Washington-backed effort to oust President Hugo Chávez. > > While the lockout succeeded in dramatically cutting oil production by the government-owned oil company, PdVSA, this was due mainly to sabotage by top managers, technicians and oil tanker captains who oppose Chávez’s ban on privatizing the oil industry, as well as his social reforms that benefit the poor. > > Some groups of blue-collar workers have backed the strike, but many more have worked to repair sabotaged equipment and restore production. In reality, the so-called “strikers” are Venezuela’s rich and corrupt oligarchy–more accustomed to corporate boardrooms, luxury villas and diplomatic suites than picket lines and demonstrations. > > \< snip \> > > The longer the lockout continues, the more polarized Venezuela will become. Media opinion polls claim that Chávez’s support is down to 30 percent–although it’s difficult to verify such claims. On the other hand, the widespread hatred of the coup plotters shows the potential for a popular mobilization and a struggle for change far more radical than anything Chávez has attempted. Znet Venezuela (which says it’s a "A Community of People Committed to Social Change ", so I’m assuming that it’s Left) calls it a lockout. [http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=2734](http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=2734) > [@](#): > > Gaviria Should Leave Venezuela > > by Al Giordano > Narconews\> > December 11, 2002 > > \< snip \> > > The Venezuelan people have every right and duty to demonstrate outside of the commercial TV stations. Those media companies backed the failed April 2002 coup d’etat in that country with a big lie that “Chávez Resigned” when twice-elected President Hugo Chávez had not. For the past week, those commercial TV stations have nakedly attempted to provoke another coup by inventing another big lie – parroted by most of the U.S. and English-language press corps – that a management imposed work lockout in some sectors is somehow a “general strike.” Like “Chávez Resigned,” the use of the term “strike” is this week’s big lie; repeated ad nauseam in the hope that it will be believed by the gullible among us. The World Socialists calls it a lockout. > **[Venezuela: Is the CIA preparing another coup?](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/12/vene-d11.html)** > > With a “strike” organized by Venezuela’s employers now entering its second week, there is every indication that the South American country is being subjected to a classic destabilization campaign organized in collaboration with US intelligence. > [@](#): > > Venezuela: Is the CIA preparing another coup? > By Bill Vann > 11 December 2002 > > With a “strike” organized by Venezuela’s employers now entering its second week, there is every indication that the South American country is being subjected to a classic destabilization campaign organized in collaboration with US intelligence. > > \< snip \> > > The “strike”—in reality an employers’ lockout—began on December 2. It is the joint creation of FEDECAMARAS—Venezuela’s big business association—and the CTV, or Confederation of Venezuelan Workers, a corrupt labor bureaucracy that is closely tied to the AFL-CIO in the US. The CTV is also a recipient of substantial funding from the National Endowment for Democracy, a US agency created to funnel funds to foreign organizations that had previously been financed directly by the Central Intelligence Agency. > > The joint big business-CTV action has had its most visible effect on the wealthier neighborhoods and downtown shopping districts of Caracas, where well-heeled demonstrators—backed by thugs on motorcycles—have forced stores to close. In the working class areas and the impoverished shantytowns in the hills surrounding the capital, there has been little impact on daily activity. So, it seems to be the Left that says it’s an employers’ lockout. But, the trouble is that all these sites also claim that both last spring’s attempted coup and the current problems are due to some U.S./CIA/Venezuelan elite conspiracy, which makes it difficult to take them seriously. Yes, I know that paranoids have enemies, but still… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venezuelas-situation/146260.md?page=3)