# Venting: am I the jerk? Cleaning 30 foot high up gutters sans safety equipment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 24, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655 "2023-11-24T23:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/41 "2023-11-25T17:11:49Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Can someone please explain to me what this means? > I have never worked on a steep roof. > To me “walking” involves 2 feet and thus two points of contact. What is the third? Unless you’re wearing a secured safety harness, you don’t just walk around a roof on your 2 feet. You need 3 points of contact at all times. The third point of contact is a hand or knee or your butt. This is also a practice in free-climbing or any risky climbing-type situation. Not to be confused with “third point of contact” in a parachute-landing fall, which is sort of a side-roll to distribute impact. Ideally the impact sequence is feet, knee, butt, lat muscle. In that context, the third point of contact is always your butt, which also makes it a suitable euphemism for the same. Main point, again, being: without a secured safety harness, you don’t just walk around a roof on your 2 feet, make sure a 3rd point of contact is touching at all times. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/42 "2023-11-25T17:19:20Z")
How does one walk upright while using their butt or knee as a contact point? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/43 "2023-11-25T17:19:47Z")
One doesn’t walk upright. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/44 "2023-11-25T17:24:34Z")
What? Crawling on your knees ? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/45 "2023-11-25T17:32:03Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > So … you have experience. > > Experience matters. > > So does the kind of risk-intolerance that may come with age. This. A middle-aged guy, who’s been doing it for years, and hypothetically knows what he’s doing (and what not to do) is extremely different from sending two teenaged boys, who almost undoubtedly do _not_ know how to do it safely (the OP mentioned that the kids were just walking around upright), up on a roof that’s 30 feet above the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/46 "2023-11-25T17:32:15Z")
No, the OP is not a jerk. My son broke his arm when his ladder kicked out from under him while he was cleaning gutters. He was left dangling (ala Chevy Chase) until the gutter started to give way, so he let go and landed on the ladder. I chastised him for not having someone bracing the bottom of the ladder while he was up there. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kelby2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/47 "2023-11-25T17:42:51Z")
> [@chela](#): > > What? Crawling on your knees ? Scoot, using your butt as an anchor. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/48 "2023-11-25T17:49:39Z")
I’ve replaced 4 roofs. But the pitch was not too steep. You can of course make a mis-step and that would be it. I used ropes/protection on two of them. It is a pain in the ass. But so is death. Now that my homes roof is steel, I simply cannot climb up there without using ropes. It’s too slick. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/49 "2023-11-25T18:08:02Z")
Sure while one is trying to clean the gutter, hunker down or sit but unless the pitch is too steep to stand, walking should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/50 "2023-11-25T18:20:19Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yes. > > Until one of them falls off the roof and breaks their neck. > At which point ‘We should have listened to you’ does no one any good. > > You’re old and wise, they’re young and stupid. Or the alterative. You don’t be a jerk and then when (not if) one does fall off the roof and has compound fractures in both legs it is **YOUR** fault for not telling them they’re being dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/51 "2023-11-25T18:26:01Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > A middle-aged guy [You Talking To Me?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg) ---
**Author:** ![Kelby2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kelby2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/52 "2023-11-25T18:31:00Z")
> [@chela](#): > > Sure while one is trying to clean the gutter, hunker down or sit but unless the pitch is too steep to stand, walking should be fine. I roofed for a summer, hardest work I’ve ever done by far. While I would walk on the roof near the ridge, I immediately hunkered down anywhere near the edge. Wore out the seat in a couple pairs of jeans that way. / Only accident we had, somewhat ironically, was the teenaged son of the contractor/owner who did fall off the roof walking near the edge. Fortunately, he was not badly hurt, but we never saw him on the job again. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/53 "2023-11-25T19:22:58Z")
I will need to clean my gutters soon, and my mum’s. I intend to use a ladder with standoff :- [![](https://dccf75d8gej24.cloudfront.net/images/products/05/050320082/EE7CEECC-897F-41C4-9C7E-423E0AAB1C71-huge.jpg) ](https://dccf75d8gej24.cloudfront.net/images/products/05/050320082/EE7CEECC-897F-41C4-9C7E-423E0AAB1C71-huge.jpg) None of this climbing on the roof malarkiness for me. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/54 "2023-11-25T20:31:12Z")
I’m a bit alarmed at how close the right leg of the standoff is to the corner of the building. Any slip-sliding away to the right and he’s going to get a very brief flying lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/55 "2023-11-25T23:14:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m a bit alarmed at how close the right leg of the standoff is to the corner of the building. Any slip-sliding away to the right and he’s going to get a very brief flying lesson Hey, if he slides right, that left arm will catch the downspout and spin him, and he’ll even learn a roll (of sorts). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/56 "2023-11-26T05:19:20Z")
So, my ex was born and raised in China, has no experience, and thinks the roof is like climbing a tree and fear of heights. And, what I mean is that she is as naive as my son. That said, she agreed to pay someone to do the job. This morning, I took my son outside on the driveway. “you ever work a construction job?” No (but Dad, me that is, did for a few summers) “How high up you reckon that gutter is?” About 30 feet “What are we standing on?” Concrete driveway “How many injuries would you sustain if you fell?” Silence “We lost your twin sister in January to a tragic household accident, you think I want you to be number two?” Very silent ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/57 "2023-11-26T09:45:11Z")
👍 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/58 "2023-11-26T10:01:14Z")
A professor of mine fell off the roof. Broken bones, serious concussion, personality changes including very poor decision making that led to complaints of sexual inappropriateness in the classroom. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/59 "2023-11-26T13:51:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Also, gutters aren’t just full of leaves and twigs; the wet material that may have been sitting there for months is often full of fungal spores and potentially rodent and squirrel droppings, so you really should wear gloves and a respirator when cleaning them. Surprised this has gone without comment. Impresses me as pretty over-the-top precaution. When I was a kid, I loved being out on the roof in our Chicago bungalow(s). Not a steep roof and not terribly high. Cleaning the gutters was my job as soon as I was big enough to move the wooden extension ladders. No big deal at all. (never understood folk who cleaned gutters from the roof if a ladder could reach…) Our first home was a split level, so the highest eave was no more than 15’ off the ground. Then we moved to a taller home with a steeper roof, with the back eave over a walkout basement and brick patio. Had to ladder up to the front and then climb over the eave and down to the back gutter. That gave me the willies. Now, in my 60s, I’m in a split level again, and have little interest in getting up on the roof. Fortunately, the way our house is situated, leaves collect only in the lower level’s gutters. So I easily reach them off of an aluminum extension ladder. I remember one time as a kid, my mom had jury duty in a case where a guy fell off a ladder - standing too high and reaching too far. If you avoid those errors and are careful about ladder placement, it isn’t a big deal. I’m regularly impressed when I see roofers walk about on often steep roofs. Can’t recall ever seeing protective harnesses used. That really has to beat up your body over time. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655/60 "2023-11-26T14:40:54Z")
Curious about safety equipment, I googled “roofers” and looked at images. Seems about half and half, people wearing a harness and people not. I did notice that for nearly all the people wearing harnesses, you can see a rope going down from the harness (not up). I guess if they get stuck on the roof, people on the ground can pull them down. I’m so confused. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venting-am-i-the-jerk-cleaning-30-foot-high-up-gutters-sans-safety-equipment/993655.md?page=4)