# Verbal permission to park in handicapped space? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819 "2007-10-15T18:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/21 "2007-10-17T04:01:29Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] You can always rationalize illegal behavior. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Well, not always, but sometimes. Sometimes laws don’t make any sense, and cause a lot of trouble. As the OP mentioned above, the law, in its infinite wisdom, has created a situation where a person in need can’t make efficient use of a prime parking spot that is almost surely sitting idle otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/22 "2007-10-17T05:16:55Z")
> [@](#): > > No, the space is free because I got home last. If I got home earlier, I would take a normal space and the last one in would take the handicapped spot, as sensibility would dictate. I have never seen an actual handicapped person park there. So you’re saying there is precisely the exact amount of parking spaces in the lot as there are people parking in it? And that all of the other people filled every other spot and you just happen to be the last person who pulls into the lot each night and finds the last spot open? I think a more likely explanation is that the other people in the lot chose not to park in the handicapped spot. I won’t go any deeper into this subject in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/23 "2007-10-17T13:54:56Z")
Get the temporary tag. One day soon, you’ll be at the mall or somewhere, be very unsteady on your feet and wish you had. There isn’t a limit to how many handicapped spaces they have, you wouldn’t be taking one from anyone. I’m not sure if this is your first pregnancy, but when those ligaments start to loosen in the last month, and the last round of weight gain occurs, you wouldn’t think twice about being air-lifted to the door. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/24 "2007-10-17T22:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=Balthisar] That’s a good link. I imagine it only applies to federal buildings, though? It mentions businesses providing goods and services to the public, however, so I’m imagining that this applies beneath the federal level. ADA and other federal rules only apply to certain size companies (number of employees) or to businesses that do interstate trade. So, really, this just opened up a lot more questions, including this one, too: it mentions making spaces accessible as well as marking them as accessible. By law, is this necessarily the same as making them handicapped _only_? I seem to recall signs on handicapped spots requiring permits/plates, or stating handicapped only – very explicit. If a business exceeds the minimum (say, 100% of spots being accessible), then does this implicitly indicate that no one at all can park there, other than the disabled? [/QUOTE] No. It applies to every parking lot. Since President G.H.W. Bush signed it into law in 1989. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/25 "2007-10-18T14:39:02Z")
Sorry **Balthisar** , I forgot to check back on this thread. As **Ignatz** said, ADA requirements do apply to all businesses in the US that are open to or provide a service to the public. For that matter, it applies to any business that has a parking lot for employees. Small businesses (or apartment buildings, to touch on the other line of discussion) might only need to have one accessible space, but they still need to provide it based on how many stalls they have. Making a space accessible means that it has an adjacent aisle, either 60” (5’) or 96” (8’) wide to accommodate getting into and out of a car easier, or allow a side-lift of a van to work. The aisle can be shared by adjacent stalls so you do not need an aisle for every space, but every accessible space does need to abut an aisle. It is valid to assume that a handicap driver may need to back into some spaces to make use of the aisle. Typical parking lot spaces are 9’ wide. At least this is what I use, although some cruel designers use less. 😃 If you wanted to, you could have every space in a parking lot be adjacent to a 5’ or 8’ aisle, and even stripe the cross-hatch in the aisles to indicate their use, but unless you painted the handicap symbol and/or posted a sign at each stall, anyone could park in the stalls. Of course you would still have to have the minimum number of stalls properly marked to be in compliance with the ADA law, and people/clients would wonder what the heck you were doing. If you had 50 such spaces in your parking lot and marked or signed them all as handicap accessible, then only people with permits could legally park there. It is the marking that makes it a legal requirement. (A lawyer might be able to argue against a ticket under such circumstances, but I would not care to wager how it would turn out.) It is possible to have more than the minimum number of handicap accessible spaces in a parking lot if the building use dictates it. I have not done parking lots for hospitals or special use buildings (is there a Wheelchair Users Alliance?) but could imagine increasing the number under those circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/26 "2007-10-18T18:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=Auntbeast] Get the temporary tag. One day soon, you’ll be at the mall or somewhere, be very unsteady on your feet and wish you had. There isn’t a limit to how many handicapped spaces they have, you wouldn’t be taking one from anyone. I’m not sure if this is your first pregnancy, but when those ligaments start to loosen in the last month, and the last round of weight gain occurs, you wouldn’t think twice about being air-lifted to the door. [/QUOTE] It’s my second. I do remember what the last month is like, but the parking lot really isn’t that huge. I’m having a healthy pregnancy and not too much weight gain this time, and I know walking is good for me. It’s only the ice, since I manage to fall when I’m not pregnant sometimes too. The malls by us and the grocery store have those reserved for pregnant women spots and I can usually snag one if the weather is bad. For the record, I now plan to part in a visitor spot at work when I need to. It’s only one space over from the handicapped, thus avoiding all legal issues entirely, even though I am 99% sure I could take up one handicapped space without bothering anyone or getting caught. ---
**Author:** ![d4nieL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@d4nieL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d4nieL)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/27 "2011-02-06T12:34:04Z")
not to bring up and old thread but a similar incident happened to my wife and she got the ticket at our apartments because the apartment manager told her the signs didnt mean they held people to them and that she could park there because its closer. something that i didn’t see anyone say, this is private property and it is posted, did the officer have the right to enter private property in the first place? the apartment did not call them there to enforce this so i don’t see how he had the right to enter the premises. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/28 "2011-02-06T13:00:00Z")
> [@d4nieL](#): > > not to bring up and old thread but a similar incident happened to my wife and she got the ticket at our apartments because the apartment manager told her the signs didnt mean they held people to them and that she could park there because its closer. something that i didn’t see anyone say, this is private property and it is posted, did the officer have the right to enter private property in the first place? the apartment did not call them there to enforce this so i don’t see how he had the right to enter the premises. [California Vehicle Code Section 22511.8](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22511_8.htm) > [@](#): > > 22511.8. (a) A local authority, by ordinance or resolution, and a person in lawful possession of an offstreet parking facility may designate stalls or spaces in an offstreet parking facility owned or operated by the local authority or person for the exclusive use of a vehicle that displays either a special license plate issued pursuant to Section 5007 or a distinguishing placard issued pursuant to Section 22511.55 or 22511.59. The designation shall be made by posting a sign as described in paragraph (1), and by either of the markings described in paragraph (2) or (3): The fact there are properly designated and marked spaces means the manager cannot arbitrarily decide when it’s enforceable. Note: this is California though I imagine it’s the same in all states. ---
**Author:** ![d4nieL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@d4nieL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d4nieL)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/29 "2011-02-06T14:31:14Z")
yes i understand and my state declares that “(b) Any authorized municipal, county, or state law enforcement officer may go on private property to enforce this section.” but the key word is “may” , my question is this officer could not physically see my wife’s vehicle without going into the private property as we live in the back of the apartment complex. So my question is not whether or not we broke the law but did he have the right to go onto private property and write a citation whenever the complaint was not issued by the apartment management? Is he not trespassing? it is posted at the front of the apartments NO TRESPASSING also ---
**Author:** ![d4nieL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@d4nieL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d4nieL)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/30 "2011-02-06T14:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > any amusement or resort or any other place to which the general public is invited or solicited, even though located on private property, and upon conviction, notwithstanding any other penalty provision which may be authorized or employed, shall be fined a minimum of fifty dollars ($50) for the first offens See as it states here any other place to which the general public is invited or solicited, this apartment complex also has a sign that states no soliciting, meaning the general public is NOT allowed here. So what the law tells me is that he can issue tickets in such places as the wal-mart parking lot where there is general public, but not in a private residential area without consent of the apartment. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/31 "2011-02-06T14:39:51Z")
The key word is “may” as in permitted to do an action. You may have to dig through your Vehicle Code bit there is probably a provision allowing such an action. The police generally cannot enforce traffic laws in a private lot(you can run a stop sign at the mall) but I’m guessing that handicapped spaces are given a special exemption. And if the cop is trespassing, who will you call to have him arrested? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![d4nieL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@d4nieL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d4nieL)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/32 "2011-02-06T15:05:15Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The key word is “may” as in permitted to do an action. > > You may have to dig through your Vehicle Code bit there is probably a provision allowing such an action. > > The police generally cannot enforce traffic laws in a private lot(you can run a stop sign at the mall) but I’m guessing that handicapped spaces are given a special exemption. > > And if the cop is trespassing, who will you call to have him arrested? 😃 yeah i know its kind of a lose lose scenario it’s just the simple fact the apartment managers put the sign up for an elderly lady who passed away like a year ago because her doctor wrote a note for her and asked the apartment to do so, but when they did it they told the lady that even thow it is there they wouldnt make anyone not park there, even thow I NEVER parked there when she was here im not that type of person, its just they told my wife she could park there not problem because there were several people across from us always having people over and taking up spaces that wernt on the lease. I just feel like I shouldn’t be held liable for something the apartment has told us time and time again is no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/33 "2011-02-06T15:32:52Z")
A guy at my work parks in the handicapped access space (white striped space) which enables access to the wheelchair ramps. He does it every single day and has been doing it for months, if not years. He has tacit approval from the owner of the company, since nobody seems to want to do anything about it. I do have half a mind to call the cops on him, though. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/34 "2011-02-06T16:23:36Z")
I wonder if **Velma** had a boy or a girl… ---
**Author:** ![d4nieL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@d4nieL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d4nieL)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/35 "2011-02-06T17:14:13Z")
I mean basically the thing is there because the apartments are too lazy to remove it, its like if i put up a handicap sign in my backyard and my wife parks there every day is a police officer going to go into my backyard and write me a ticket? The question isn’t really am i right or am i wrong the question is did the officer overstep his boundry by illegally entering the apartments without a warrant or concent? Im in no way a law profesional but it seems like what he did was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/36 "2011-02-06T17:22:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t let [URL http:// [www.handicappedfraud.org//index.php?mod=reports](http://www.handicappedfraud.org//index.php?mod=reports)]these stalkers catch you. They will post your license number and a picture of your vehicle on their website, and target you for harassment. If you are lucky, you will get on of their post-it warnings! That’s a little presumptuous of these people to think that they can determine disability by sight only. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/37 "2011-02-06T17:31:38Z")
Zombie! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/38 "2011-02-06T17:36:03Z")
> [@d4nieL](#): > > not to bring up and old thread > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Zombie! He knows. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/39 "2011-02-06T17:38:54Z")
> [@T\_SQUARE](#): > > Look, I pay rent here. My parking needs come before those of visitors, be they handicapped or able bodied. Surely you don’t think it makes much sense to park on the street (outside the security gate) on the off chance someone has a handicapped visitor? (at a complex with no elevators) > > If they do, they can let the handicapped visitor out in front of the joint and then park the visitors car on the street for them. > > Sorry, but a non-tenant does not have more claim to a spot than a tenant, and cetainly not because of a poorly crafted law that often isn’t applicable says so. Sorry, if I am even just driving by and I see your car parked there I will pick up my cell phone and call the cops on you. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819/40 "2011-02-06T17:46:47Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > A guy at my work parks in the handicapped access space (white striped space) which enables access to the wheelchair ramps. He does it every single day and has been doing it for months, if not years. It really pisses me off when I see people do this at places like Wal-Mart. I’ve actually been known to call the police (though not on the 911 line) and report the vehicles, if there are no handicapped plates or placards visible. My wife says I get too worked up about it. My philosophy is that the law applies to everyone, not everyone EXCEPT this jagoff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/verbal-permission-to-park-in-handicapped-space/422819.md?page=3)