# Veronica Mars 11/30/05 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496 "2005-12-01T02:22:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/21 "2005-12-01T20:37:30Z")
it might be Weevil and Logan is framed for that one as well - Hector may be getting too cocky - OR maybe Weevil will find out what Hector’s been up to and kill him Who’s Cliff? ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/22 "2005-12-01T20:52:24Z")
He’s the public defender. He works as Logan’s laywer in _Blast from the Past_, after he gets arrested again, and he appears a couple times in season one. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/23 "2005-12-01T20:54:45Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > it might be Weevil and Logan is framed for that one as well - Hector may be getting too cocky - OR maybe Weevil will find out what Hector’s been up to and kill him > > Who’s Cliff? I was kind of leaning toward Hector too. Cliff is the awesome, kinda sleazy lawyer who Logan got when he insisted on getting a public defender, the one who told him to stop being an ass and shell out for an actual good lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/24 "2005-12-01T20:58:55Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Who’s Cliff? He’s the wise-cracking [Public Defender](http://www.crlight.com/mainimages/cbtmJessDaran.jpg). The one on the left. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/25 "2005-12-01T22:11:04Z")
I think that it’s very good storytelling that Veronica is not always right. She was sure Celeste was the villain here and it backfired. That’s happened before on the show and it’s good to see thatVeronica Drew isn’t infallible and that everything doesn’t tie up as neatly in the end as we expected. It never occured to me that the VP had used Veronica as a pawn, until it was obvious that the principal was the father. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/26 "2005-12-02T04:25:20Z")
Whay was the alternate inding 9.5 minutes? It only differed in that last 90 seconds or so. I can see going back to whn VM gets the phone call about Abel Koonz’s effects (and maybe a bit further), but IMHO it didn’t need to by 9.5 minutes. The alt endind was a bit extreme, but not totally out of whack compared to the rest of the show. Though it would be awful hard to get out of. No clue who dies. The Logan witness? Next week’s Lost is a rerun, so I’ll get to watch VM “live” Brian ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/27 "2005-12-02T14:03:09Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > I think that it’s very good storytelling that Veronica is not always right. She was sure Celeste was the villain here and it backfired. That’s happened before on the show and it’s good to see thatVeronica Drew isn’t infallible and that everything doesn’t tie up as neatly in the end as we expected. It never occured to me that the VP had used Veronica as a pawn, until it was obvious that the principal was the father. I actually like Clemmons better because of it - at the beginning of the episode I thought he was just another azzhole administrator, but he’s got a devious side. yum. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/28 "2005-12-03T05:32:29Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > He’s the wise-cracking [Public Defender](http://www.crlight.com/mainimages/cbtmJessDaran.jpg). I know his voice from somewhere but I keep forgetting to look him up. Now I’ve looked him up and I still don’t know why I know that voice, other than he’s got one of those voices and has apparently been in every damn animated thing that I’ve never seen. Odd. But I love his character and want more of him. More Cliff! More Cliff! Great episode. I didn’t like the alternate ending. I loved how Trina didn’t seem to mind having a deaf lunch lady as her mother. I expected something awful from her. Having Meg’s baby be the result of incest would fit this show. Or rather, perhaps, having VM believe that Meg’s baby is the result of incest would fit this show. If Hector is working with the Fitzgeralds, why not try to frame Weevil for Felix’s death? Weevil said he didn’t shoot at Logan’s car, but he didn’t deny the house. Did he not have a chance or did he actually do it? I’ve always thought he didn’t do it because it was too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/29 "2005-12-03T23:11:38Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I loved how Trina didn’t seem to mind having a deaf lunch lady as her mother. I expected something awful from her. I agree. In spite of how bitchy and fake Trina is, it was a nice moment when she hugs her mom back. Of course, when she later confronts the principal, I get the feeling that she does that for the publicity. She seems to be shameless when it comes to that, as shown by her producing a movie about her (adoptive) dad being a murderer and her putting the fake story about her illness out with such gusto. I guess there is no such thing as bad publicity for her. > [@](#): > > Weevil said he didn’t shoot at Logan’s car, but he didn’t deny the house. Did he not have a chance or did he actually do it? I’ve always thought he didn’t do it because it was too obvious. I think he did it. Sometimes a cigar store is just a cigar store. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/30 "2005-12-04T00:16:37Z")
> [@Amok](#): > > Sometimes a cigar store is just a cigar store. That’s classic. I want it to become part of the SDMB lore. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/31 "2005-12-04T00:33:10Z")
> [@Amok](#): > > I agree. In spite of how bitchy and fake Trina is, it was a nice moment when she hugs her mom back. Of course, when she later confronts the principal, I get the feeling that she does that for the publicity. She seems to be shameless when it comes to that, as shown by her producing a movie about her (adoptive) dad being a murderer and her putting the fake story about her illness out with such gusto. I guess there is no such thing as bad publicity for her. Given who raised her, she might be considered well-adjusted. 😉 The way I see it, Principal Moorehead got off light. Twenty-five years ago, he nailed and impregnated a deaf **student** , an underaged disabled girl, then left her to deal with the pregnancy on her own. When she gave the baby to him, an adult, the baby’s father and a general authority figure, he abandoned it in the girl’s bathroom on prom night. In the intervening time, she might not be the only student he took advantage of that way. All he got was some public humiliation and the loss of his job. Guy like that ought to be duct taped to the bottom of a bus that’s being tossed off a cliff, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Einmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Einmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einmon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/32 "2005-12-04T23:08:23Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > I believe it said “someone in Veronica’s world will die.” That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s somebody who’s really close to her; it could be any one of the 11,000 supporting characters we’ve seen before. 🙂 > > Anybody want to make wild guesses? Well, if we’re going with the credits, Wallace has a chalk outline drawn next to him and I’ve been biting my nails ever since I noticed. They’d better not, I really like Wallace and I miss him as Veronica’s “moral backbone”. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/33 "2005-12-04T23:19:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If Hector is working with the Fitzgeralds [nitpick] I believe you mean _Fitzpatricks_. [/nitpick] Anyway, I find it odd that Wallace has suddenly fallen off the face of the earth. I hope they don’t make the huge mistake of killing him off now, but why on earth have they benched him? Also, what happened to his mom? She and Keith have some unfinished business. A fight does not resolve a relationship. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/34 "2005-12-05T02:51:37Z")
> [@zahava424](#): > > And what did Kendall mean when she said that she’d been in Duncan’s bed? He didn’t sleep with her, did he? My impression was that he’d been resisting her efforts to get him into bed. I think they did. But only the once. Also - the grad student (i forgot here name) i think she will be significant to a plot later this season - something to finally bring celeste down ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/35 "2005-12-05T04:32:09Z")
> [@Zahava424](#): > > Anyway, I find it odd that Wallace has suddenly fallen off the face of the earth. I hope they don’t make the huge mistake of killing him off now, but why on earth have they benched him? > > Also, what happened to his mom? She and Keith have some unfinished business. A fight does not resolve a relationship. Storywise, Wallace is in IIRC Chicago with his birth father. His mom is in Limbo somewhere, maybe back in Chicago looking for him? We don’t know. Is anyone else bitterly disappointed that the writers didn’t take the golden opportunity for a Buffy shout-out? It woulda been so sweet if when Trina and Kendall were together and finding out about the baby project, one of them had said “we did that in high school too, but we used eggs.” ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/36 "2005-12-05T04:43:00Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Is anyone else bitterly disappointed that the writers didn’t take the golden opportunity for a Buffy shout-out? It woulda been so sweet if > > when Trina and Kendall were together and finding out about the baby project, one of them had said “we did that in high school too, but we used eggs.” oh that would have been SWEET. ---
**Author:** ![Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nefarious_chipmunk/32/1045_2.png) [@Nefarious\_Chipmunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefarious_Chipmunk)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/37 "2005-12-05T20:05:52Z")
Maybe it isn’t Wallace, but Wallace’s Mom. This would give him a reason to come back (he has to care for his little bro), and be at the crime scene. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/38 "2005-12-05T22:09:05Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > I was kind of leaning toward Hector too. > > Cliff is the awesome, kinda sleazy lawyer who Logan got when he insisted on getting a public defender, the one who told him to stop being an ass and shell out for an actual good lawyer. Plus, he has an amazing voice. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/39 "2005-12-06T04:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Storywise, Wallace is in IIRC Chicago with his birth father. His mom is in Limbo somewhere, maybe back in Chicago looking for him? We don’t know. [\QUOTE] I know why he’s gone for the plot; I just think it was a bad decision, and i was wondering why they would do such a thing. But it would be too horrible if Alicia died; we have too much unanswered about her. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496/40 "2005-12-06T16:13:29Z")
> [@Zahava424](#): > > I know why he’s gone for the plot; I just think it was a bad decision, and i was wondering why they would do such a thing. Budgetary reasons. VM is a bit unusual in that it doesn’t have all of its regulars signed for every episode. Because the show is on UPN and isn’t a big hit, Warner Brothers (the studio that produces the show) isn’t getting paid a ton for it, and one of the ways they’ve chosen to economize is by having some of the actors signed for 18 (or whatever, I don’t remember the actual number) out of 22 episodes, rather than all of them, as would be usual. This was true last year as well, though perhaps not quite as noticable (though they did have Duncan flee to Cuba at one point and miss a couple episodes, which was certainly done for the same reason). Last year, the only people to be signed for all the episodes were Veronica, Keith, and Wallace. This year, it’s Veronica, Keith, and Logan. Anyways, basically the writers didn’t have much of a choice. They had to have Wallace miss a certain number of episodes, and while they could have sprinkled that throughout the season and just had him casually not be in an episode here or there, they’ve apparently chosen to have the episodes all at once, and give a storyline reason for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/veronica-mars-11-30-05/333496.md?page=3)